Hi all,
I've been a Subaru driver for 10+ years now. I've owned 3 including the one that my wife was the daily driver of, from the 2009 Legacy Limited, 2011 Outback Limited, and now currently leasing a 2019 Forester Premium. These are good cars - really good in the snow - but I am a little concerned at the problems I've had. Things happen from time to time and I get that, but it seems like once the Subies start pushing 7-8+ years, things start failing. My wife is driving a Honda Pilot now and that's largely become our family vacation car.
Cars today are more complex than ever thanks to direct injection engines and all the computers tied in. I'd like to believe that Teslas & full EV's in general are "simpler" to work with since they have fewer parts. Conversely, a hybrid has "double" the parts - both EV and ICE components. More parts, more potential points of failure is the way I see it.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on why I should pick a Prime over a Model Y going forward. I'm truly torn between the two, and the backup option is simply buying out my Subaru lease, but I'd be concerned again at long-term ownership.
A little about me first: I have two kids that are into sports, so I need the cargo room for equipment (baseball, soccer)... Model Y and Forester are fine. I'm sure RAV4 will be also. No car seats and no more kids on the way. I have access to outlets in my driveway so I can charge an EV without any extra effort or cost. My career requires me to go to work even when roads close and it's a state of emergency (fun)... this is what drew me to Subaru to begin with - since they always got me to work or home from work safely. I never, ever, ever felt like I didn't have full control of my vehicle in any of my Subarus. I've done 360's on the highways in bad weather in my Honda Civic in years past and that's what made me swear to only buy an AWD car (I learned about winter tires since then, but run all-seasons in my Subarus without issue. If I had a FWD/RWD car, I would consider an all-climate or dedicated winter tire... the wisdom of getting older!)
I commute about 10 miles in each direction, with usually less than 10 miles for local stuff after the fact. I occasionally will drive about 60 miles each way in the summer months to a shore area to meet up with family - around a dozen times per month during the summer.
For reference, fuel prices are cheap in NJ. I pay 17 cents per kWh for electricity at home - there's no time of use, just a 24/7 flat rate - which includes my delivery charge as well. Gas (87) is around $2.00 per gallon right now but I wouldn't be surprised if this pushes closer to $3 by next year as it tends to fluctuate.
It's worth noting that my state (NJ) pays $5000 towards the cost of an EV thanks to a new incentive this year, and you do not pay any sales tax which saves 6.625%. I'd also get a discount on highway tolls but I believe that would apply to the Prime also, so I am not factoring in that.
The Prime would get the Federal rebate of $7500, and around $1050 off from the state incentive ($25 per mile of full EV driving, which is 42 miles). I'd have to pay the 6.625% sales tax.
I'm factoring in about $100 per year for the 12 month / 12k service for the Prime, and factoring in $25 for the Tesla for tire rotations. I believe I can get them done for free at my local Costco anyway.
So, before going any further, including sales tax, destination fees and MSRP, then SUBTRACTING the incentives, we are looking at sales prices of:
Tesla: 46590
Prime SE w/ Moonroof pkg: 36300
Prime XSE w/ Tech pkg: 44000
Since nearly all my daily driving will be accomplished with electricity, I am not factoring in potential gas cost as I consider this negligible - maybe a tank every month or two.
If I kept my Forester at the end of my lease, I'd pay about $22,000. This would roughly cost me around $800 to $1000 more in fuel costs compared to the Prime and Tesla. But, I do regret the Premium trim I bought (that's the one up from base, Subaru's trims go Base-Premium-Sport-Limited-Touring) and would appreciate the amenities of leather and other "Limited" features again.
Over a 10 year and 20 year ownership (one can hope), the Prime and Tesla are generally even. Yes, the Tesla will require more tires it seems and perhaps more repairs, but again I'm not getting into the little things, like the Prime requiring ICE-related repairs of the exhaust system/components or spark plugs being changed at normal intervals - which seems to be an astounding 144 months!
Assuming the Subaru didn't explode in the 20 year ownership, I'd be looking at about an equal cost between the Prime SE, the Tesla, and the Forester in the low to mid 50,000 range. The XSE would be slightly higher at $55,000ish.
You could argue you get more features in the XSE with Tech Package compared to the Model Y, which doesn't have ventilated seats or a HUD. But, you could also argue the Tesla doesn't have to worry about catalytic converters, or things like that.
Has anyone converted from a Subaru Forester (especially a modern one like my 2019) to a RAV4 Prime or Hybrid? What's the ride like? How's the regen in it? Can you control the strength of regen to do a one-pedal driving?
Thank you for your opinions! I am scheduled to test drive next week (had to wait for an open appointment due to pandemic)
Has anyone purchased an SE and regretted not getting the XSE or vice-versa? Has anyone not purchased the Tech Package and regretted it or vice-versa?
Thanks,
Pilot
Note: FWIW, I have a Supercharger near work if needed and another along my short 10 mile commute home. I have an Electrify America station about a mile from my home, and I have two Tesla Service Centers within about 20 minutes of me.
I've been a Subaru driver for 10+ years now. I've owned 3 including the one that my wife was the daily driver of, from the 2009 Legacy Limited, 2011 Outback Limited, and now currently leasing a 2019 Forester Premium. These are good cars - really good in the snow - but I am a little concerned at the problems I've had. Things happen from time to time and I get that, but it seems like once the Subies start pushing 7-8+ years, things start failing. My wife is driving a Honda Pilot now and that's largely become our family vacation car.
Cars today are more complex than ever thanks to direct injection engines and all the computers tied in. I'd like to believe that Teslas & full EV's in general are "simpler" to work with since they have fewer parts. Conversely, a hybrid has "double" the parts - both EV and ICE components. More parts, more potential points of failure is the way I see it.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on why I should pick a Prime over a Model Y going forward. I'm truly torn between the two, and the backup option is simply buying out my Subaru lease, but I'd be concerned again at long-term ownership.
A little about me first: I have two kids that are into sports, so I need the cargo room for equipment (baseball, soccer)... Model Y and Forester are fine. I'm sure RAV4 will be also. No car seats and no more kids on the way. I have access to outlets in my driveway so I can charge an EV without any extra effort or cost. My career requires me to go to work even when roads close and it's a state of emergency (fun)... this is what drew me to Subaru to begin with - since they always got me to work or home from work safely. I never, ever, ever felt like I didn't have full control of my vehicle in any of my Subarus. I've done 360's on the highways in bad weather in my Honda Civic in years past and that's what made me swear to only buy an AWD car (I learned about winter tires since then, but run all-seasons in my Subarus without issue. If I had a FWD/RWD car, I would consider an all-climate or dedicated winter tire... the wisdom of getting older!)
I commute about 10 miles in each direction, with usually less than 10 miles for local stuff after the fact. I occasionally will drive about 60 miles each way in the summer months to a shore area to meet up with family - around a dozen times per month during the summer.
For reference, fuel prices are cheap in NJ. I pay 17 cents per kWh for electricity at home - there's no time of use, just a 24/7 flat rate - which includes my delivery charge as well. Gas (87) is around $2.00 per gallon right now but I wouldn't be surprised if this pushes closer to $3 by next year as it tends to fluctuate.
It's worth noting that my state (NJ) pays $5000 towards the cost of an EV thanks to a new incentive this year, and you do not pay any sales tax which saves 6.625%. I'd also get a discount on highway tolls but I believe that would apply to the Prime also, so I am not factoring in that.
The Prime would get the Federal rebate of $7500, and around $1050 off from the state incentive ($25 per mile of full EV driving, which is 42 miles). I'd have to pay the 6.625% sales tax.
I'm factoring in about $100 per year for the 12 month / 12k service for the Prime, and factoring in $25 for the Tesla for tire rotations. I believe I can get them done for free at my local Costco anyway.
So, before going any further, including sales tax, destination fees and MSRP, then SUBTRACTING the incentives, we are looking at sales prices of:
Tesla: 46590
Prime SE w/ Moonroof pkg: 36300
Prime XSE w/ Tech pkg: 44000
Since nearly all my daily driving will be accomplished with electricity, I am not factoring in potential gas cost as I consider this negligible - maybe a tank every month or two.
If I kept my Forester at the end of my lease, I'd pay about $22,000. This would roughly cost me around $800 to $1000 more in fuel costs compared to the Prime and Tesla. But, I do regret the Premium trim I bought (that's the one up from base, Subaru's trims go Base-Premium-Sport-Limited-Touring) and would appreciate the amenities of leather and other "Limited" features again.
Over a 10 year and 20 year ownership (one can hope), the Prime and Tesla are generally even. Yes, the Tesla will require more tires it seems and perhaps more repairs, but again I'm not getting into the little things, like the Prime requiring ICE-related repairs of the exhaust system/components or spark plugs being changed at normal intervals - which seems to be an astounding 144 months!
Assuming the Subaru didn't explode in the 20 year ownership, I'd be looking at about an equal cost between the Prime SE, the Tesla, and the Forester in the low to mid 50,000 range. The XSE would be slightly higher at $55,000ish.
You could argue you get more features in the XSE with Tech Package compared to the Model Y, which doesn't have ventilated seats or a HUD. But, you could also argue the Tesla doesn't have to worry about catalytic converters, or things like that.
Has anyone converted from a Subaru Forester (especially a modern one like my 2019) to a RAV4 Prime or Hybrid? What's the ride like? How's the regen in it? Can you control the strength of regen to do a one-pedal driving?
Thank you for your opinions! I am scheduled to test drive next week (had to wait for an open appointment due to pandemic)
Has anyone purchased an SE and regretted not getting the XSE or vice-versa? Has anyone not purchased the Tech Package and regretted it or vice-versa?
Thanks,
Pilot
Note: FWIW, I have a Supercharger near work if needed and another along my short 10 mile commute home. I have an Electrify America station about a mile from my home, and I have two Tesla Service Centers within about 20 minutes of me.
... but I’m also being realistic, fit and finish seem to have issues. Reliability, should be fine during the warranty period. Heck even my trusted Toyota... they have some issues also, though personally never have had any. But look at this board...
