[rwillies15]

Hello,

I have a 2007 RAV4 that is doing what you can probably guess...burning oil. About one quart every 1,000 miles. I ignorantly bought the vehicle about a year ago without knowing of this common issue. Of course, my local Toyota dealership wants $6,200 to replace the pistons and rings. I have gathered from this forum that the only practical solution is to continue topping off the oil. It also seems that most people believe the issue with the piston design is holes that are ultimately too small and get clogged easily. After asking some questions, one of the service guys did mention their "engine performance restoration" service to clean the gunk out. It sounds like if the problem is gunk getting clogged where it shouldn't, this would remedy that to help reduce the rate of consumption. After looking into it a little, it sounds like this is what is referred to as an "engine flush," which also typically seems to be discouraged.

So, could this be a good idea for my engine? Or should I plan on leaving it be and continuing to top off the oil at this rate (or worse) for the life of the vehicle? The odometer is a little under 130,000 miles if that helps.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Foryota]

One way to get an idea of the condition is to pull a spark plug to examine it and also to use a scope to check inside the combustion chamber. Without more information I’m skeptical of the service they are offering - many dealer service items are completely fluffed up to take money from your wallet.

Others more knowledgeable than I can chime in on the root causes of the 2.4 oil problem, but I’d be inclined if it was mine to just keep topping up the oil. And in the summer consider using a slightly thicker oil if possible - the 2.4 engine is listed to run with 20w-50 in Australia BTW. Boggles my mind and compared to 5w-20 it’s like molasses, but it’s an option. I don’t think I’d move up to that one right away.


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[Bigphil555]

I am somewhat skeptical about degunking an engine.

The reason is that there are a multitude of small oil galleries, together with several fine screens in the oil control valves as an example. If you loosen the gunk in the engine, yes, a majority will be caught by the filter, but some will get to other parts causing problems.

This is just my 2p worth, and not an absolute in anyway

 

[Foryota]

I am somewhat skeptical about degunking an engine.

The reason is that there are a multitude of small oil galleries, together with several fine screens in the oil control valves as an example. If you loosen the gunk in the engine, yes, a majority will be caught by the filter, but some will get to other parts causing problems.

This is just my 2p worth, and not an absolute in anyway

Agreed Phil. Seems like it could cause more problems than it would solve.


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[SoNic67]

It sounds like if the problem is gunk getting clogged where it shouldn't, this would remedy that to help reduce the rate of consumption.

Nope, it will just making money for the shop. You can try it yourself, cheaper, by using synthetic engine oil, but AFAIK the issue was never clogs in the oil circuit.
The problem is that the specific 4 cyl engine is a POS. Hence the recall.
sb0094t11.pdf (fixed-ops.com)

 

[Blogson]

The dealer's suggested engine rebuilt cost would be about the same as the value of the vehicle itself. Could check with another shop for cost comparison. 1000 miles per quart oil consumption is not excessive per usual Toyota spec. Agree with others that keeping an eye on the oil level and topping it up is a good solution.

If really concerned, when I was in high school decades ago we had a fully equipped auto shop where people have repairs done, including engine rebuilds, as supervised learning experiences, for only the cost of parts, but such work could take some time. Is there a trade school or high school in your area which could do an engine rebuild for only the cost of parts?

 

[RTexasF]

It was the pistons and piston rings that were the problem. No amount of "flushing" is going to make a faulty piston ring seal properly.

I have used this on old oil guzzling smokey clunkers. It did reduce the oil consumption.

Engine Restorer

RESTORE Engine Restorer is the only product that repairs worn cylinders and restores compression back to near original levels.

www.restoreusa.com

 

[morRAV4]

Hello,

I have a 2007 RAV4 that is doing what you can probably guess...burning oil. About one quart every 1,000 miles. I ignorantly bought the vehicle about a year ago without knowing of this common issue. Of course, my local Toyota dealership wants $6,200 to replace the pistons and rings. I have gathered from this forum that the only practical solution is to continue topping off the oil. It also seems that most people believe the issue with the piston design is holes that are ultimately too small and get clogged easily. After asking some questions, one of the service guys did mention their "engine performance restoration" service to clean the gunk out. It sounds like if the problem is gunk getting clogged where it shouldn't, this would remedy that to help reduce the rate of consumption. After looking into it a little, it sounds like this is what is referred to as an "engine flush," which also typically seems to be discouraged.

So, could this be a good idea for my engine? Or should I plan on leaving it be and continuing to top off the oil at this rate (or worse) for the life of the vehicle? The odometer is a little under 130,000 miles if that helps.

Thanks for any advice!

The Toyota clean that you talk of is an "upper-engine" clean system aimed at reducing carbon on the valves and piston heads. A solvent is added to the vacuum line while the car is running and it does work. The carbon on valves and piston heads comes from oil vapour via the PCV system. The oil burning problem is from gummed up oil rings and no solvent so far has been shown to clear that. The most likely explanation for the oil issue is that the 2AZ pistons run hotter than expected and even slightly sub-optimal cooling is problematic (sadly, there is no clear explanation of the cause of oil burning).

Suggestions I have seen for fixes: seafoam or other oil flushing agent (no scientifically valid proof apart from positive anecdote); "Italian tune up" driving long distance at speed (cant see it working on already gummed rings); only use synthetic oil and change regularly - over time small amounts of gum removed (seems unlikely); solvent soak - take out spark plugs and add solvent like toluene to the pistons and let it sit for days so some leaks down to the oil rings. Suck pistons totally clean of liquid solvent and fire up. Solvent soak may actually work a bit but no controlled trials have been done.

Your car is burning oil, so the only reliable fix is to replace the pistons.

 

[rwillies15]

Thanks, all! Sounds like this is not a good idea or wise use of money. I guess I will just start using high milage full-synthetic oil and keep topping it off. What would you say the odds of a clogged catalytic converter are? I am still hoping to get at least a couple of years out of this.

 

[Bigphil555]

With the amount of oil used, it is a possibility. Are you getting a lack of power or a misfire for example?

 

[SoNic67]

What would you say the odds of a clogged catalytic converter are?

Open the oil filler cap when engine is running. How much exhaust gas (blowby) is going out?
Did you replace the PCV valve? Do it as first step.
Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant might be something worth checking into.

 

[FredsToyota]

Had the recall done on 2 vehicles Rav4 and matrix and fixed them. They ran great before and after but no more oil burning now. Ask dealer to do it under recall.

 

[Foryota]

Had the recall done on 2 vehicles Rav4 and matrix and fixed them. They ran great before and after but no more oil burning now. Ask dealer to do it under recall.

Last we knew the recall period expired a couple of years ago. Anyone who didn’t get it fixed (or reimbursed) during that time has lost out.


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[morRAV4]

Hello,

I have a 2007 RAV4 that is doing what you can probably guess...burning oil. About one quart every 1,000 miles. I ignorantly bought the vehicle about a year ago without knowing of this common issue. Of course, my local Toyota dealership wants $6,200 to replace the pistons and rings. I have gathered from this forum that the only practical solution is to continue topping off the oil. It also seems that most people believe the issue with the piston design is holes that are ultimately too small and get clogged easily. After asking some questions, one of the service guys did mention their "engine performance restoration" service to clean the gunk out. It sounds like if the problem is gunk getting clogged where it shouldn't, this would remedy that to help reduce the rate of consumption. After looking into it a little, it sounds like this is what is referred to as an "engine flush," which also typically seems to be discouraged.

So, could this be a good idea for my engine? Or should I plan on leaving it be and continuing to top off the oil at this rate (or worse) for the life of the vehicle? The odometer is a little under 130,000 miles if that helps.

Thanks for any advice!

BG EPR® More than an engine flush — High Quality Maintenance Products

Unlike traditional engine flush products, it will not dilute engine oil while cleaning. BG EPR® Engine Performance Restoration® softens and dissolves hard-to-remove deposits from piston rings in as little as 10 minutes! It is safe to use in any situation and will provide adequate lubrication while

www.bgaustralia.com.au

I came across this guy's product. Maybe it will work or perhaps its snake oil. Anybody tried it?

 

[RTexasF]

(sadly, there is no clear explanation of the cause of oil burning).

There certainly is!

In certain Toyota cars and SUVs, the engine may consume excessive oil due to faulty pistons and piston rings.

Vehicles affected by service bulletin:

• 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2007 Toyota Camry
• 2008 Toyota Camry
• 2009 Toyota Camry
• 2009 Toyota Corolla
• 2010 Toyota Corolla
• 2011 Toyota Corolla
• 2009 Toyota Matrix
• 2010 Toyota Matrix
• 2011 Toyota Matrix
• 2012 Toyota Matrix
• 2013 Toyota Matrix
• 2006 Toyota RAV4
• 2007 Toyota RAV4
• 2008 Toyota RAV4
• 2007 Toyota Solara
• 2008 Toyota Solara

Toyota's rebuild campaign installed redesigned pistons and rings.

 

[morRAV4]

There certainly is!

In certain Toyota cars and SUVs, the engine may consume excessive oil due to faulty pistons and piston rings.

Vehicles affected by service bulletin:

• 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid
• 2007 Toyota Camry
• 2008 Toyota Camry
• 2009 Toyota Camry
• 2009 Toyota Corolla
• 2010 Toyota Corolla
• 2011 Toyota Corolla
• 2009 Toyota Matrix
• 2010 Toyota Matrix
• 2011 Toyota Matrix
• 2012 Toyota Matrix
• 2013 Toyota Matrix
• 2006 Toyota RAV4
• 2007 Toyota RAV4
• 2008 Toyota RAV4
• 2007 Toyota Solara
• 2008 Toyota Solara

Toyota's rebuild campaign installed redesigned pistons and rings.

I meant there is no explanation of how the so called re-design works and the basis of the original faulty design and how it causes the problem. A proper in-depth technical explanation of the design issues is missing (metallurgy, tension, heat dispersion, oil coking, oil channel dimension, etc). Usually when you stuff up, you just don't say "My bad!" and that's it. The so-called new pistons have identical rings and identical oil drain holes.

 

[SoNic67]

I think you are expecting/demanding too much.
They don't tell you how they make anything else, it's proprietary information. No car maker tells you anything like that.
Why would this be different? They acknowledged the issue and provided a fix in warranty (and in some cases after).
The new pistons are different.

And no, I am not saying this because I am some kind of Toyota fanboy. I am just realist.

 

[RTexasF]

The vast majority of folks where Toyota repaired the faulty 2.4l could not care less why or how the new parts work. The fact that they DO work is all they want to know. I'd say you are in the extreme minority wanting to know all the technical aspects. That's not a bad thing but other than yourself, who cares?

 

[kevcules46]

The repair does specify that newer designed pistons and rings were used as they found the issue with the previous design. What exactly was done in the new design isn't that important to me.

But you should be able to find out some details of the newer design change. A Toyota mechanic should be able to tell you, especially the ones who rebuild the engines. The changes should be visually noticeable.

Whether the detailed specs are proprietary is unknown but may be why the specs aren't easily attained.

My engine was repaired a few years ago and works like a new one.

 

[morRAV4]

The repair does specify that newer designed pistons and rings were used as they found the issue with the previous design. What exactly was done in the new design isn't that important to me.

But you should be able to find out some details of the newer design change. A Toyota mechanic should be able to tell you, especially the ones who rebuild the engines. The changes should be visually noticeable.

Whether the detailed specs are proprietary is unknown but may be why the specs aren't easily attained.

My engine was repaired a few years ago and works like a new one.

Thanks for the reply. I cannot find a reasonable explanation of how the "fix" actually works. I suspect that it is not a fix at all, but would be the same as cleaning the original pistons. Your car will work like new now, but there is nothing about the new pistons that shows any substantial design change, especially the rings are exactly the same. Your engine would function just as well with new but exactly the same pistons. If the "fix" is is not really a fix, then it is a fraud on those who next buy your car, thinking that "Its been fixed" when it has not, because over time, the same issues will appear. Likewise the 2AR-FE has the same pistons and low tension rings: the only difference is specifying 0W20 oil. I suspect that this piston gumming issue is much more complex and is caused by an intersection of driving style, high temperature combustion chambers and oil change interval. That is why I want to know the truth from Toyota, and besides, I like the truth. If its a simple thing to explain, then why not explain it?