[SDGTR]

I thought TSS was supposed to be a bunch of safety features, not something designed to kill me.

Here's a drawing of the situation. Be kind, I'm not an artist and I did this in Microsoft Paint.

This is a very nasty turn. It's not an intersection, just an entrance to my complex. I have to turn left into the complex and cross two lanes of traffic. A couple of times a week when there is really bad rush hour traffic the first lane will be dead stopped bumper to bumper. The second lane usually moves but there are always cars although a space between cars will always open up and you can eventually make the turn. Crossing the first lane is always a challenge because someone will inevitably block the entrance.

Today traffic in the first lane was completely stopped but someone left enough space for me to get through. But the second lane I had to cross was moving about 15 or 20mph. So as I usually do, I started moving through the space in the first lane and waited patiently until there was enough space between the moving cars to make it across the second lane and when there was, I hit the gas with plenty of time to make it across, assuming of course that the car would do what I told it to do.

But, what happened this time really scared the hell out of me. As soon as I hit the gas and my nose poked out into that lane, instead of accelerating, the R4P killed all power and left me to coast through the turn at a snail's pace. It seems the TSS system detected the car coming from the side and decided the best alternative was to have me stop right in front of it. WTF?

All I could do was hold the gas pedal to the floor and it eventually started moving again but for that split second I almost got t-boned. Fortunately I had calculated well enough that I still had a buffer and the other car barely had to slow down but still, right when I needed a burst of acceleration the most, the TSS turned into HAL 9000 and tried to kill me.

Toyota Safety System fail.

I have done this a million times in my Subaru and never experienced anything like this. Has anyone else encountered something like this with the TSS system?

 

[maximumlucre]

I turned off pre-collision braking in my '21 R4P SE. Once, with a prior vehicle, I was able to steer around an impending collision without braking - automatic braking would have killed me.

 

[anav_ds]

Go to the next intersection, turn left, then doing a U, or turn in a driveway etc.
Then come back in the right lane and make a right turn into the driveway. Brakes or not, you are asking for trouble attempting to turn left at a bad spot.
Petition to get lights installed. We have the same scenrio here with a left turn into a gateway meat market on a busy road, always near misses and accidents.
People are tired, busy, impatient, distracted by their cellphones, smoking dope, you will get hit, just a matter of time.

 

[veinless]

I turned off pre-collision braking in my '21 R4P SE. Once, with a prior vehicle, I was able to steer around an impending collision without braking - automatic braking would have killed me.

Same. This is a universal problem. On my jeep I left the pre-collision alerting on but turned off the auto-braking feature.

 

[paulday]

I thought TSS was supposed to be a bunch of safety features, not something designed to kill me.

Here's a drawing of the situation. Be kind, I'm not an artist and I did this in Microsoft Paint.

View attachment 193265

This is a very nasty turn. It's not an intersection, just an entrance to my complex. I have to turn left into the complex and cross two lanes of traffic. A couple of times a week when there is really bad rush hour traffic the first lane will be dead stopped bumper to bumper. The second lane usually moves but there are always cars although a space between cars will always open up and you can eventually make the turn. Crossing the first lane is always a challenge because someone will inevitably block the entrance.

Today traffic in the first lane was completely stopped but someone left enough space for me to get through. But the second lane I had to cross was moving about 15 or 20mph. So as I usually do, I started moving through the space in the first lane and waited patiently until there was enough space between the moving cars to make it across the second lane and when there was, I hit the gas with plenty of time to make it across, assuming of course that the car would do what I told it to do.

But, what happened this time really scared the hell out of me. As soon as I hit the gas and my nose poked out into that lane, instead of accelerating, the R4P killed all power and left me to coast through the turn at a snail's pace. It seems the TSS system detected the car coming from the side and decided the best alternative was to have me stop right in front of it. WTF?

All I could do was hold the gas pedal to the floor and it eventually started moving again but for that split second I almost got t-boned. Fortunately I had calculated well enough that I still had a buffer and the other car barely had to slow down but still, right when I needed a burst of acceleration the most, the TSS turned into HAL 9000 and tried to kill me.

Toyota Safety System fail.

I have done this a million times in my Subaru and never experienced anything like this. Has anyone else encountered something like this with the TSS system?

If there was a little oil spot and a tire started to spin as you started to accelerate, the computer might have cut engine power to stop the tire slippage, leaving you in a limp mode.

I've had that happen, having the wheel turned sharply and start to spin as I'm trying to turn to beat cross traffic.

Releasing the gas pedal as soon as it happens and then pressing down on the gas pedal again usually restores power to the drivetrain sooner than just leaving the gas pedal to the floor.

Have a good day.

 

[anav_ds]

It's basic, don't make a turn until the path is clear. If you cannot ascertain if the far lane is clear, then don't start the turn. If your intent is to beat traffic, then accept the consequences of doing so vice following the road regulations. Put in another way, how would you do in the court of law if an accident ensued? Would you have a leg to stand on in terms of the driving code or in a lawsuit claiming Toyota caused the accident. My guess is that it would be a lose lose proposition.

 

[iTim314]

First, the maneuver you attempted is not safe. Many, many T-bone accidents happen this way. You shouldn't attempt to turn against multiple lanes of traffic when your view is obstructed by traffic that is stopped, even if someone gives you the courtesy wave. Around here, we call this the "Courtesy Wave of Death." If you can't safely turn, do what's safer and keep driving, then circle back around.

Second, unless you got a big, red BRAKE banner on your dashboard and your multimedia display accompanied by a loud tone, then this wasn't TSS. Cross-traffic detection also SLAMS on the brakes. You will know it when you feel it. What you experienced is a yet-to-be-identified hesitation problem when accelerating. Speaking of which,

Third, the forum search is your friend: A scary hesitation experience in my RAV4 Prime

 

[anav_ds]

I tend to get a slight hesitation when accelerating if in the green ECO mode of driving. Dont get that in standard or sport mode...........

 

[iTim314]

I tend to get a slight hesitation when accelerating if in the green ECO mode of driving. Dont get that in standard or sport mode...........

I don't think that's the same thing. I've experienced what OP is talking about. The vehicle does not accelerate at all for about 1 or 2 seconds after you press the accelerator. It happens very rarely, but at random, with or without any surrounding or oncoming traffic.

 

[SDGTR]

A couple of things, I figured someone would criticize my driving but this is normal for this turn. I did not proceed blindly based on someone else's courtesy wave. I had a clear view of the oncoming cross traffic and had enough time to make the turn, plenty of time had my car not cut the power and left me coasting through the turn. At that time of day it is impossible for that turn to be 100% "clear" with no cars approaching unless you sit there waiting for 2 hours for traffic to die down. You have to simply wait for a space then proceed.

I don't know if there was a big BRAKE banner because I was paying attention to the other cars. I have seen that BRAKE banner once when backing into my garage and the car didn't like something even though I wasn't going to hit anything.

It could have been the hesitation issue from the other thread because the car didn't actually stop, it just cut power. However, what I don't know is whether the automatic braking can be overridden by flooring the gas pedal because that's what I did and it kept the car moving (crawling) until the power returned.

The suggestion to drive farther up the road then make a u-turn is a good one and I have done that a few times. It's not always necessary though. Someone from the first lane left me a spot and the traffic on the second lane was not heavy. And in some cases it's not even possible to do that. Once in a while the traffic there is so bad that both lanes are dead stopped and can literally be backed up at a dead stop for an entire mile.

So, my driving aside, this is about a problem the car exhibited. I initially figured it was the TSS but a couple of people have said they have experienced the same thing and it wasn't the TSS so who knows... either way, the car tried to kill me. It's a good thing that I did wait until I had enough time to make it across otherwise I would have been t-boned for sure.

 

[juniorkirk]

First, the maneuver you attempted is not safe. Many, many T-bone accidents happen this way. You shouldn't attempt to turn against multiple lanes of traffic when your view is obstructed by traffic that is stopped, even if someone gives you the courtesy wave. Around here, we call this the "Courtesy Wave of Death." If you can't safely turn, do what's safer and keep driving, then circle back around.

Second, unless you got a big, red BRAKE banner on your dashboard and your multimedia display accompanied by a loud tone, then this wasn't TSS. Cross-traffic detection also SLAMS on the brakes. You will know it when you feel it. What you experienced is a yet-to-be-identified hesitation problem when accelerating. Speaking of which,

Third, the forum search is your friend: A scary hesitation experience in my RAV4 Prime

"Cross-traffic detection also SLAMS on the brakes. You will know it when you feel it."

That is an understatement, lol. Someone in the next county over will feel it. I thought the RAV had great brakes the first time I had to slam on the brakes really hard (deer crossing highway), but when the RAV saw the deer, it added a whole new level of braking. Literally knocked the wind out of me, I was impressed. First thing I said was "damn, you got my back RAV, but do you have to be so rough?".

 

[iTim314]

So, my driving aside, this is about a problem the car exhibited. I initially figured it was the TSS but a couple of people have said they have experienced the same thing and it wasn't the TSS so who knows... either way, the car tried to kill me. It's a good thing that I did wait until I had enough time to make it across otherwise I would have been t-boned for sure.

Agreed, your driving aside. Lord knows I'm not a perfect driver, either.

Anyone that has experienced this hesitation should report it to the NHTSA. It's not a normal thing. I've only experienced it once, and in that circumstance I was in no danger. Nevertheless, a loss of automotive power has already caused Toyota to issue one recall (unrelated to this… I think).

 

[anav_ds]

The point about turning safely is such that if something like a stall occurs, the person approaching you in the lane should have ample time to stop. Trying to
"beat" traffic does not account for such things. Its called defensive driving. As per our PccckNNN friend, I am as guilty as the next person of not following the safest driving course of action and have been luckier than right much too often. I try to not be in so much of a rush these days as my age means my skills are probably diminishing but my head tells me I am still 22.

Final word, dont depend on acceleration to save your bacon in regular driving, depend on good practices. My old Honda Van with a big gas engine sometimes would do the same thing as you both describe......... It taught me to not rely 100% on automatic car response or my 'great' reflexes'.

 

[paperboy]

You are going to DIE believing that you are right. Carry on.

 

[SDGTR]

You are going to DIE believing that you are right. Carry on.

So just so I understand correctly, the problem here isn't the fact that a 5 week old car that costs $50K suddenly lost all power when I attempted to accelerate in a situation that is completely normal. This means that the car can't really be trusted to perform as it's supposed to. That's fine and is to be expected.

The problem is that I made a left turn when there was oncoming traffic, even though I left enough space that I did not cause an accident?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding you.

 

[chuckles70]

Anyone that has experienced this hesitation should report it to the NHTSA. It's not a normal thing.

Reinforcing this little bit of wisdom.

My Honda once decided one of those metal construction plates (that you see covering trenches) was an obstacle and stopped the car so fast stuff flew through the cabin. If someone was behind me I would have been rear ended. I got lucky. I did contact the NHTSA.

These safety features aren't perfect, and we need to provide feedback. The car better have a damn good reason for not doing what the driver tells it to. The car seemed to fail here.

 

[JuneBug]

My question is: If you turn off automatic braking, does it stay off, or do you have to disable it every time you start the car? I hate these electronic nannies!

 

[SDGTR]

The point about turning safely is such that if something like a stall occurs, the person approaching you in the lane should have ample time to stop.

And that's exactly what happened. Which is why I'm here trying to figure out WTF went wrong with my new car instead of here bitching about having wrecked my new car.

Basically, my careful driving kept me from crashing despite my Toyota's best efforts to do otherwise.

The internet is an amazing place. My car does something very strange and extremely dangerous yet somehow that's not a problem, the problem is that I made a left turn! Gotta love it.

So, assuming I'm the worst driver in the world and moving past that, what's the problem with my car?

 

[anav_ds]

Well this had nothing to do with the braking, more like to do with the fly by wire pedal to motor (assuming in EV mode)?? Probably a software glitch in the matrix............... Shouldnt happen assuming a physical connection was not the problem, it leaves the programming..................

 

[SDGTR]

Well this had nothing to do with the braking, more like to do with the fly by wire pedal to motor (assuming in EV mode)?? Probably a software glitch in the matrix............... Shouldnt happen assuming a physical connection was not the problem, it leaves the programming..................

Yes, I was in EV mode. This morning on my drive to work I tested it a couple of times when accelerating from stoplights and everything worked fine. The difference between yesterday's acceleration and today's is the cross/oncoming traffic. Leads me to still suspect that the TSS had something to do with it.

But like I mentioned, I was focusing on the road and the traffic so I can't say for sure whether it flashed the BRAKE warning or not.