TSS 2.5 tried to kill me today!
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Excellent post. Thanks. Turning left thru 2 lanes of traffic and merging with cars coming from the light can be hazardous. Your best advice? Turn right and then do a u-turn.
EDIT: this is not the same situation that OP described. Still dangerous, but different. My bad.
We have a 2020 R4 XLE Premium with no front end sensors, so no problem, but we are taking delivery in a few weeks of a 2023 R4H Limited with 4 sensors across the front, so we’ll need to be careful.
CORRECTION: the 4 sensors on the front bumper of the R4 Limited have nothing to do with the problem that OP described.
There is nowhere to turn right. The only alternative is to keep going up the road until traffic thins out then making a u-turn so you end up making a right turn into my entrance.
But like I explained, the traffic pattern there doesn't always allow for that. You might have to drive a mile past, then if you're lucky you can make a u-turn. But if the traffic is backed up there too, it will be the exact same situation but instead of having to make a left, you have to make a u-turn then sit in about 20 or 30 minutes worth of traffic to travel the mile back to the entrance.
We can second guess the exact situation and driver choices until we're blue in the face but the bottom line here is the car is malfunctioning and creating a very unsafe situation.
Bottom line, if the car cuts power when the driver needs acceleration, regardless of the traffic situation, that is a problem.
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Since the sensors for the TSS system is the camera on the windshield and the radar behind the Toyota emblem, if they are pointing at the driveway when power was cut, it wasn't that system cutting the power. Regardless of the Brake banner flashing and beeping on the MID, the TSS systems can only see in front of the car.
The cross traffic detection, if you have this system, if for the rear only when backing up. It will detect cars approaching from left or right when in reverse.
The 4 sensors in the front and rear bumpers are not part of the TSS system. They are proximity sensors only and have a very short range so yo don't bump into something while parking or maneuvering in close proximity of stuff. This system is not standard on all trims. The TSS system is standard equipment.
The cross traffic detection, if you have this system, if for the rear only when backing up. It will detect cars approaching from left or right when in reverse.
The 4 sensors in the front and rear bumpers are not part of the TSS system. They are proximity sensors only and have a very short range so yo don't bump into something while parking or maneuvering in close proximity of stuff. This system is not standard on all trims. The TSS system is standard equipment.
I don't know then but check out the other thread - A scary hesitation experience in my RAV4 Prime
Several other people reported an almost identical situation with their Rav4s. There is a problem with something and it only seems to happen when there is cross traffic or oncoming traffic.
While no one may know what causes it yet, there is most definitely a situation where something causes the car to cut power. As seen in the other thread, I'm not the only one this has happened to. The common element seems to be the presence of cross traffic or oncoming traffic. Make of it what you will but that's the info we currently have to work with.
I'm assuming the car isn't supposed to do this so whether it's TSS doing it or something else, I consider it a malfunction whether it's a TSS malfunction or a throttle malfunction. But too many people have experienced it with cross traffic present to write it off as a coincidence.
TSS 2.5 info:
What Is Included With Toyota Safety Sense 2.5?
The TSS 2.5+ software builds on the previous suite by boosting the best functionalities – the Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection and Full-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC). These systems include automatic emergency braking, forward collision warning, pedestrian detection and adaptive cruise control. Plus, the TSS 2.5+ suite continues offering other functions, such as automatic high-beam headlights for nighttime visibility and lane-keeping assistance with both road-edge detection and steering assistance so the vehicle never veers off course.
With the release of the new Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+ software, the features take functionality to a whole new level. Beyond the basics of detecting a vehicle that is up ahead of you, the system avoids accidents proactively. It’s now capable of sensing a bicyclist, vehicle or pedestrian in all light conditions. If you are making a left-hand turn and an obstacle is detected, you will receive visual and audio alerts to get your attention. If that isn’t enough to stop you, the vehicle will apply automatic braking to avoid a collision.
Can this automatic braking be overridden by flooring the accelerator? If so, that would explain why the car keeps moving even if it's very slowly. Is it possible that this part of the system is malfunctioning or just poorly calibrated and gets confused when it detects an approaching vehicle when you're making a left turn? Maybe it thinks the vehicle coming the opposite direction is going to crash into you head on? Could it think that instead of turning, you're simply swerving into a head on collision? I don't know.... Just trying to think of what might be going on.
What Is Included With Toyota Safety Sense 2.5?
The TSS 2.5+ software builds on the previous suite by boosting the best functionalities – the Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection and Full-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC). These systems include automatic emergency braking, forward collision warning, pedestrian detection and adaptive cruise control. Plus, the TSS 2.5+ suite continues offering other functions, such as automatic high-beam headlights for nighttime visibility and lane-keeping assistance with both road-edge detection and steering assistance so the vehicle never veers off course.
With the release of the new Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+ software, the features take functionality to a whole new level. Beyond the basics of detecting a vehicle that is up ahead of you, the system avoids accidents proactively. It’s now capable of sensing a bicyclist, vehicle or pedestrian in all light conditions. If you are making a left-hand turn and an obstacle is detected, you will receive visual and audio alerts to get your attention. If that isn’t enough to stop you, the vehicle will apply automatic braking to avoid a collision.
Can this automatic braking be overridden by flooring the accelerator? If so, that would explain why the car keeps moving even if it's very slowly. Is it possible that this part of the system is malfunctioning or just poorly calibrated and gets confused when it detects an approaching vehicle when you're making a left turn? Maybe it thinks the vehicle coming the opposite direction is going to crash into you head on? Could it think that instead of turning, you're simply swerving into a head on collision? I don't know.... Just trying to think of what might be going on.
Based on the quote above, did you get any audible alerts? You already said you did not notice a visual alert. Another question is were you using the turn signal? Turn signal use is definitely used by lane keeping. I don't know whether it an input to anything else.
Another possibility is that as you are turning, it sees movement of traffic in front of you and senses a possible collision. Maybe the system does not know exactly what direction you are going and what exact direction the traffic is moving. I do know that the parking system detects pedestrians and traffic that are not even close to the car and alerts, but does not seem to brake. Since you were moving slowly, the parking alert system could be operating.
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Per the video below, even in the emergency braking scenario, there is no time the system will remove throttle response from the driver. The TSS system only applies the brakes regardless if the driver reacts to a collision or not. That being said, it still doesn't sound like the loss of power and throttle response was caused by the TSS system:
Did you read the accounts from the other thread of this same thing happening to several other people? The most prominent common factor is cross traffic or approaching traffic.
Even if the TSS system isn't supposed to do this, that's why it would be called a malfunction, if it is actually involved.
Although according to the video, TSS works by applying the brakes. However, the car also prevents the use of the throttle when the brakes are applied. I would hypothesize that the throttle was disabled because the brakes were pressed by TSS. I have never tested nor experienced the issue.
The curious thing though is that it did not completely stop the car. I don't even know if the brakes were activated. It's possible that they were and if I hadn't pressed the gas pedal it would have completely stopped. But my having floored the gas pedal and continuing to hold it down it overrode the automatic braking to a certain extent. Not saying that's what happened but I wonder if that's a possibility.
I think something else was going on. We the pre-collision breaking kick in and you feel it as the vehicle stops dead. It doesn't just cut power. The cross-traffic alert will do the same thing, with a bunch of audible alerts. Were you in EV mode with a cold engine? In the latter case, it will try to pull power from the gas engine under heavy throttle, but the engine protection want let it provide power if the oil is too cold.
I was in EV mode but the temperature was in the 60s and the battery showed about 18 miles left. In EV mode, unless it's extremely cold outside or the battery is low, you can floor the gas pedal and it will stay in EV mode.
And like I mentioned, this morning I tested it a few times. Temperature was in the 40s. From a couple of stoplights, in EV mode, I floored it and everything worked fine. No loss of power, it stayed in EV mode, everything was perfect. A couple of tests were even going uphill and it didn't hesitate even the slightest bit. I told it to go and it did.
Check out this thread - A scary hesitation experience in my RAV4 Prime
Several people have reported the exact same thing with turning, cross traffic, or oncoming traffic being common factors. Something very strange is going on.
Could have been any of those things. Looking back on it, I can't say for sure whether there were audible alerts. I was focused on making the turn in the opening I had available and when the power cut out my focus shifted very quickly and I became focused on things other than whether or not the car was setting off alerts.
My memory consists mostly of my internal dialogue "wtf is this???, go go go!!! move you [email protected]#$ piece of $4!t!!!" as I tried pushing the gas pedal through the floor.
It was a very strange and stressful situation, that's for sure.
I had a pre-collision incident tonight in a Sienna (has TSS 2.0). A deer ran out in front of me. I saw it when it was on the side of the road and hit the brakes. Then the deer ran out. I heard the audible alert and the brakes went on very hard. The deer made it across the road and the audible alert stopped quickly and the automatic braking released or maybe lessened a bit. This may be similar to what you have turning a corner. When the car has not turned 90 degrees, the car may see a hazard and apply the brakes, but it no longer sees a hazard once the car has completed the 90 degree turn. The brakes then let off.
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Go around the block and set yourself up for a right hand turn. I never understood half the things people do and their thinking when it comes to driving. Making a left turn out of the corner convenance store for example. Find one down the road that will allow you to make a right turn out of the parking lot.
I personally turn off as much of the electronic stuff that I can. People are becoming too complacent on technology and are driving faster and faster with little to no common sense and not paying attention.
I personally turn off as much of the electronic stuff that I can. People are becoming too complacent on technology and are driving faster and faster with little to no common sense and not paying attention.
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What specifically was disabled when this happened?
Some of these automated systems can act funny when partially disabled. That might be a clue in itself as to what was going on.
I might have seen this answer but forgot, but when you pressed on the gas, did you initially have a quick burst of power that suddenly faded away? If so, read below.
I believe that this is what might be happening.
Torque Vectoring AWD - Front wheel spin? | Toyota RAV4 Forums (rav4world.com)
I was having this issue daily, getting across a busy road, turning left out of a driveway onto the road going up. The front driver's tire would start to slip. Boom, no power and a car bearing down on my driver's door. Learned to press down just enough to get across quickly, without the wheel spin. I've moved, so no longer have that issue.
Hope this helps you out. Good luck.
Have a good day.
Go around what block? There is no block. And pretending for the sake of argument that there is a block, how will that fix the issue where the car cuts power when I tell it to go?
I continue to be amazed at some of the replies. Apparently a brand new $50K car randomly cutting power when told to accelerate isn't a problem. The problem is people making left turns. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
This thread is about an issue where the car cuts power when accelerating, possibly related to the presence of cross traffic or oncoming traffic in certain situations. It is not about suggestions or advice for navigating in traffic. Try to stay on topic.
So, do you have any information about why the car cut power in this situation for me and for several other people who have reported the same thing?
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