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I keep waiting for someone with a 3D printer to print up a new hose receptacle thingy (whatever you call the part that goes between the cap and the tank) and replace the one in their car and let us know once and for all whether this is the problem.
 

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First off, Toyota has announced that they were working on a fix. We must take them at their word. We can deal with it for now.
Second, Toyota and Honda are in the process of shutting down operations in the U.S. - can we give them a break? I think so.
And a Third point. I think we all need to take in a deep breath, and get through this COVID-19 crisis FIRST !
  • I do NOT take Toyo at their word.
  • Dealing with it isn’t the point since Toyo is still liable by warranty.
  • This has nothing to do with Toyo shutting down.
  • This has nothing to do with Covid.
Ultimately, this is about Toyo NOT listening, caring, or honoring their warranty. What we say here is for us to see that others have this problem, what they’re doing about it, and presenting a somewhat united front about the problem, now and in the future. Toyota isn’t going to fix this now or in the future. What we are doing about that is really what matters.
As for me, seeing all the problems the new Rav generation, I’m done with any new Toyotas.
 

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Yeah, why all this moron talk? Toyota designed a defective fueling system so let's just replace all of the North American fuel pump "gas pistols". Problem solved! Brilliant!
Just adjust them better and mayby its fine. I understand why you must have that "objects in mirror are closer than they appear".
 

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No problems in Sweden. Same tank design. Different "gas pistol" design?
No problem in :
Finland
Sweden
Norway
Danmark
Poland
Latvia
Lithunia
Estonia
Russia
Germany
Fance
Spain
Italy
Greenland
South Africa
Netherlands
United Kingdom

I havent heard problem:
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
China
Saudi Arabia
Greece
Brasilia
Kazakstan

Problem countrys are as I have heard:

USA
...
 

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Just adjust them better and mayby its fine. I understand why you must have that "objects in mirror are closer than they appear".
I know. I'm just a moronic yank that thinks possibly the North American RAV4 fueling system design might be different than yours. I'm glad you are available on this forum to set everyone straight. Please continue to enlighten us!
 

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No problem in :
Finland
Sweden
Norway
Danmark
Poland
Latvia
Lithunia
Estonia
Russia
Germany
Fance
Spain
Italy
Greenland
South Africa
Netherlands
United Kingdom

I havent heard problem:
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
China
Saudi Arabia
Greece
Brasilia
Kazakstan

Problem countrys are as I have heard:

USA
...
So are saying that Toyota has lied to 🇺🇸 customers that it's a "tank design flaw and was working on a fix which would be new tank part"
 

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No problem in :
Finland
Sweden
Norway
Danmark
Poland
Latvia
Lithunia
Estonia
Russia
Germany
Fance
Spain
Italy
Greenland
South Africa
Netherlands
United Kingdom

I havent heard problem:
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
China
Saudi Arabia
Greece
Brasilia
Kazakstan

Problem countrys are as I have heard:

USA
...
Completely irrelevant to this discussion. Suggest you read the title of this thread.
 

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No problem in :
Finland
Sweden
Norway
Danmark
Poland
Latvia
Lithunia
Estonia
Russia
Germany
Fance
Spain
Italy
Greenland
South Africa
Netherlands
United Kingdom

I havent heard problem:
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
China
Saudi Arabia
Greece
Brasilia
Kazakstan

Problem countrys are as I have heard:

USA
...
And 🇨🇦 Have problems
 

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And 🇨🇦
Do you mean that Kanada is with or without the problem. I have had Couple of times same problem In Finland when starting filling and it helps when I adjust my pistol A bit differently. The airflow system for emergency stop is adjustable and I believe that it costs just nothing for anybody to adjust it less agressive. Gas pistols need service and calibration anyway sometimes. Why not as same calibrate that airfolw valve.
 

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I know. I'm just a moronic yank that thinks possibly the North American RAV4 fueling system design might be different than yours. I'm glad you are available on this forum to set everyone straight. Please continue to enlighten us!
Now we talking. Lets make your fueling system serving better for you. Tell them to adjust it more precise. Why not put them to working. No dollars at all. No waitingtime for wrong conclusion. Can leave the wholly mes behind.
 

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2919 Rav4 Hybrid Limited, Entune 3.0, Adaptive Headlights, Advanced Technology Package built June 20
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My current theory:

Based on looking at the way the filler hose enters the tank (not from the top but in the middle), I think you can fill at full speed for half a tank(as long as the gas in the tank is lower than the top of the filler tube), then the fuel in the tube starts hitting the fuel in the tank. It creeps up the filler tube and creates back pressure which shuts off the nozzle.

So the last portion of the fill has to be at a leisurely speed so fuel into the tank isn't blocked by the fuel already in the tank. If there is too much back pressure, the fuel backs up high into the filler tube causing the nozzle shut-off to trigger. If you do it slow enough so the fuel has time to enter the tank without overwhelming the venting system, the fuel can slowly flow into the tank.

I can't remember when I didn't hit the F mark. And looking back on it, those were times some pump jockey was in a hurry and filled for me or before I learned the slowly but surely method.

Is this optimum? No optimum would be a fill tube entering the tank from the top (not from the middle) so the back pressure didn't develop. But look at that area from underneath the car and tell us how you would redesign it given the suspension location and the need for a flat cargo floor.
 

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I have tried that already thoughout the winter. My experience (me, myself and Irene's) is that on an empty tank (for me) that if I attempt to regular fill to about 5.xx gallons and then go slow I come up short. I can only get 9.xx or 10.xx in. If I go slow the whole time I get upper 11.xx into the tank.

Again, YMMV and this experiment was done half-assed on my part and you might have better results.
 

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I have tried that already throughout the winter. My experience (me, myself and Irene's) is that on an empty tank (for me) that if I attempt to regular fill to about 5.xx gallons and then go slow I come up short. I can only get 9.xx or 10.xx in. If I go slow the whole time I get upper 11.xx into the tank.

Again, YMMV and this experiment was done half-assed on my part and you might have better results.
There 2 functions with that airflow system and they are working together. 1 it takes the overflowing air from tank and circulates that to keep fumes to you minimal. Same time it keeps that overflow vent shut and pistol flowing. I think that airflow rate, Airtube size, airtube hole situation, gas foaming and tight of the vent are all critical. Too narrow tank tube as well means. You may be a little too much safe side with that flowing air and that's it. We have same exact gas systems with our made in Japan versions and no problems all over the other World. Your gas foaming and the stations are left to think. If I fills up with 3 clicks, I will get gasoline to shoes every time and I can see the gas level with eyes. Meter is TOP over TOP to the wall. After 1 click I can tank no more than 1.5 Liters. Other 2 stops stright that. 3:rd gets out to shoes.
 

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There 2 functions with that airflow system and they are working together. 1 it takes the overflowing air from tank and sirculates that to keep fumes to you minimal. Same time it keeps that overflow ventil shut and pistol flowing. I think that airflow rate, Airtube size, airtube hole situation, gas foaming and tight of the ventil are all critical. Too narrow tank tube as well means. You may be a little too much safe side with that flowing air and thats it. We have same exat gas systems with our made in Japan versions and no problems all over the other World. Your gas foaming and the stations are left to think. If I fills up with 3 clicks, I will get gasoline to shoes every time and I can see the gas level with eyes. Meter is TOP over TOP to the wall. After 1 click I can tank no more than 1,5 Liters. Other 2 stops stright that. 3:rd gets out to shoes.
Really? Wow...I always wondered how it worked. :rolleyes:
 

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Do you mean that Kanada is with or without the problem. I have had Couple of times same problem In Finland when starting filling and it helps when I adjust my pistol A bit differently. The airflow system for emergency stop is adjustable and I believe that it costs just nothing for anybody to adjust it less agressive. Gas pistols need service and calibration anyway sometimes. Why not as same calibrate that airfolw valve.
Canada has the problem. I have the problem. I brought it in, made sure I was on the dealer's radar for a fix once its ready. Should I petition any of the 5 gas stations I've tried to get their pistols replaced?
 

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We have same exact gas systems with our made in Japan versions and no problems all over the other World.
You are incorrect. Just because the vehicles are made in Japan, doesn't mean that the design is identical worldwide. Vehicles made in Japan are made with differences to meet design requirements of each country.

Emission standards are different in the USA and Canada than in Europe. To meet USA and Canada standards, the tank and evaporative control systems are different. When you open the fuel filler flap, is there a sticker saying that a valve may close within 30 minutes? If you don't have that sticker, then your tank system is different than ours.
 

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You are incorrect. Just because the vehicles are made in Japan, doesn't mean that the design is identical worldwide. Vehicles made in Japan are made with differences to meet design requirements of each country.

Emission standards are different in the USA and Canada than in Europe. To meet USA and Canada standards, the tank and evaporative control systems are different. When you open the fuel filler flap, is there a sticker saying that a valve may close within 30 minutes? If you don't have that sticker, then your tank system is different than ours.
OK. And thats true. Where that valve exists? Perhaps near the tank? That may slow down the overal flow in the tube and thats an failure. I have to check that from my dealer. Of course differs maters. within 30 minutes and some valve may close sounds weird to me. We may have same, but sitoutunut sticker. Ill check that.
 

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So i think we know the differences now. In The Netherlands we don't have such a sticker, and no problems refueling. Ever. Conclusion must be like Pikeviewer and many others wrote above: the emission regulations in the US and Canada forced Toyota to tailor a different EVAP system to comply to these rules, and that didn't work out very well. So yes, only one conclusion can be right: Toyota f*cked up, and needs to figure out a good fix.
These cars are expensive and need to be close to perfect. With this statement i withdraw all of my previous comments and admit my critisism was misplaced.
 

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OK. And thats true. Where that valve exists? Perhaps near the tank? That may slow down the overal flow in the tube and thats an failure. I have to check that from my dealer. Of course differs maters. within 30 minutes and some valve may close sounds weird to me. We may have same, but sitoutunut sticker. Ill check that.
I downloaded the english owner's manual for the EU version of the RAV4 and compared it to the US version. There's a lot different. I'll post the US page here for reference, since it's easier to show what's missing:

150879


The caveat about finishing within 30 minutes isn't there. Nor is the 10 second delay and message after pressing the opener button. And you can even see a physical difference in the diagram:

150880

Look on the far right: the EU version has just a simple catch to release the door, while the US version has something far more complex going on. There's also this very important caveat in the US manual:
150881


Here's the deal: the EU and US versions of the RAV4 Hybrid have a major difference in the refueling system. Furthermore, it's not like this is a US-wide thing, it's something for Toyota hybrids specifically (the Prius and the Camry seem to work the same way, but I haven't heard of any refueling problems). There's nothing official on what's going on here, but the best guess is that it has something to do with emissions.

There's a strong push (especially in California) to reduce the evaporative emissions, essentially leaks of fumes from the fuel system into the atmosphere, instead collecting them in a charcoal canister to be burned by the engine later. Cars in the US have had this system since the 1971, and the EU has similar requirements. However, this is one area where the US tends to be more strict, and it's even more tightly regulated in California.

It appears that Toyota is doing something different with the EVAP system to meet these requirements. For example, other cars I've owned vent a bit of the fumes when you open the gas cap with a very distinctive hiss. But the US RAV4 Hybrid doesn't let those fumes escape: when you press the button it depressurizes the system for you. That's what the 10 second delay is for.

And then there's the fumes which are displaced as liquid fuel enters the tank. In the US, this is usually via "Onboard Refueling Vapor Recovery" -- the fumes are vented through captured by the EVAP system on the vehicle. The alternative is to build this system into the fuel pump at the gas station, which applies a vacuum to the fuel tank to suck in the fumes and recover them. Supposedly the on-board system is more efficient.

I think that's what the 30-minute timeout is about. The internal venting and recovery system shuts off after that much time. Try to refuel the tank and the fumes won't be displaced, preventing fuel from going down the tube.

Oh, wait ... that sounds familiar ...
 
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