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Alright already, lets drop the name calling and making accusations. No matter how much we may "love" them, these are cars people. Nothing more or less and not worth getting so worked up about.

The only thing I will quibble over is the MPG. I have a Rav4 V6 and saw 23MPG all hwy on my first tank of gas. I saw 21.5 MPG of mixed city/hwy (mostly city) driving on my second. The polls on this site seem to indicate the majority of V6 owners are getting between 21MPG and 25MPG. Don't know how C&D only got 16, but those are my real world numbers. Yes, below the (always) overstated EPA estimates, but I think that's pretty good. Especially considering I only have 800 miles on my car so far.
 
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Discussion Starter #62
Edmunds got 16 MPG on CX7, while it got 19 MPG on more powerful, V6 Rav4, with more space in the interior, bigger boot and better emissions...

On the other hand, wasnt that Rav4 review on C&D pretty estatic? I have never seen any other Toyota do anything close to getting such an good review from C&D.

:)

And I am curios at what features "old suvs from other brands" have (in this price class)? Features like telescopic steering wheel that CX7 doesnt? So much about premium :).

Differences in handling and stopping are pretty minimal actually, considering that CX7 had larger and wider tires that help all of that... I am not sure if there would be any difference with Sport model at all.

Whatever Rav4 version you purchase, handling and stopping are definetly not an problem. While on 3 CX7 reviews I had pleasure of reading over so far, all reviewers agreed it needed more power (unlike with Rav4), has an turbo hole and sounds rough (well, it is an 4cly).
 
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Discussion Starter #63
bcbob said:
Rising to the bait, I wonder what is wrong with the decision my wife and I made. We researched the purchase of our RAV4 very thoroughly and it was the clear-cut winner out of the X-Trail, Lexus 400h, CRV, Highlander and Forrester. That is, despite your long list of the RAV4's supposed shortcomings, it still was head-and-shoulders above the others for us. And surely such a list can be compiled on any vehicle on the market, can it not?
I never said it was the wrong purchase. My point is it isn't a perfect CUV in every way like many people claim here and there are other good products out there too.

One of the longest threads in the 4.3 forums is "What Would You Like To See Changed ?"

There are also numerous threads where users have to modify or upgrade their brand new cars cause Toyota fails to include a simple cheap part found on other vehicles in this price range.
 

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my wife and i did alot of research before be decide on getting the RAV4.. IMO, RAV4 might not seem as perfect as for you... but for us it is.. at least my RAV 4 have third row seat which CX7 and FX35 doesn't have this option..

btw.. one of the main reason why we don't want to wait for the CX7 is because i have own 3 Mazdas and 3 toyotas.. every mazda i own has transmission problems.. and my toyota never have any problems.

anyways... there is no "PERFECT CAR".. or else everyone will be driving the same car
 
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hooolala said:
btw.. one of the main reason why we don't want to wait for the CX7 is because i have own 3 Mazdas and 3 toyotas.. every mazda i own has transmission problems.. and my toyota never have any problems.
Mazda certainly has problems with its US factories, but then again they are owned by Ford. Mazda Japanese products like the new CX7 have great reputations.

Nissan also has some troubled factories. Don't go for Armada/QX56 (I forget the other products that factory makes).

And it seems the new Toyota Avalon has major issues too.

Who knows whats ahead for new products though. Product quality is dynamic even among a brand like Toyota.
 
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syadasti said:
hooolala said:
btw.. one of the main reason why we don't want to wait for the CX7 is because i have own 3 Mazdas and 3 toyotas.. every mazda i own has transmission problems.. and my toyota never have any problems.
Mazda certainly has problems with its US factories, but then again they are owned by Ford. Mazda Japanese products like the new CX7 have great reputations.

Nissan also has some troubled factories. Don't go for Armada/QX56 (I forget the other products that factory makes).

And it seems the new Toyota Avalon has major issues too.

Who knows whats ahead for new products though. Product quality is dynamic even among a brand like Toyota.
sorry but how can CX7 have great reputation when it didnt start selling yet?
 
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Discussion Starter #68
spwolfx said:
sorry but how can CX7 have great reputation when it didnt start selling yet?
I was talking about the Japanese vs. US Mazda plants.
 
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LA times, autobytel? Lol, those are syndicated reviews... lol.

4Car:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/M/mazda/cx7-06/index-perf.html

Only three stars despite 244bhp? Mazda doesn't quote performance figures for the US automatic version, but it doesn't feel as fast as you would expect. The six-speed auto saps the performance and is an unhappy match with the turbo engine's power delivery because the natural elastic surge of an auto is amplified by the natural elastic surge of a turbo's boost build-up.
Pace might not be an issue, but the engine sound is. It's an anodyne hum that's hard to reconcile with the fat exhausts and the sporty intentions. A V6 would sound much sexier, but is ruled out by Mazda on space, weight and cost grounds.
Edmunds:
If there's a weak point to the CX-7's recipe it's under the hood, where the 2.3-liter, turbocharged four feels just a tad overburdened by the car's size and weight. It's really a reflection on the world we now live in. People expect their utility vehicles to handle like sports cars and accelerate like muscle cars. The CX-7 manages the first, but falls short of the second (meaning it "only" feels sprightly rather than super-speedy). There's certainly more than adequate power for how people need to drive a vehicle like this, but we've long since left the days of merely demanding the power we "need" from our cars.
As supposed to Rav4:
Car and Driver:

Toyotas can be so benign, so vanilla, that they’ll slip right through your hands without leaving an impression. Not the new RAV4. This is such a handsome, useful, and startlingly competent driver that it’s hard to imagine a do-it-all vehicle that does more with such aplomb. We still don’t know exactly how to classify the RAV4, except as fairly marvelous.
Edmunds:
But where this car really shines is under the hood. Toyota's new 3.5-liter V6 is a sweetheart of an engine, with exceptional horsepower and torque. The first time I punched the throttle I found myself shouting expletives — in a good way. Is there such a thing as too much horsepower? Of course not! But the fact that question crossed my mind while driving the RAV4 is a good indication that Toyota has transformed its smallest SUV into a serious player.
Armchair driver for Rav4? LOL. CD got 0.83g in Limited model, and 0-60 in 6.3 secs. Thats with non-sport suspension and skinnier tires. In real life, Rav4 feels very sporty for all purpose SUV. And it always has been sportiest small SUV in the segment. Saying Rav4 is for armchair drivers is pretty laughable statement.

I understand what you mean about features though, our european models come with all of that and more, maybe Toyota is waiting for Lexus version in the USA? But your main point wasnt that, it was performance. Which Rav4 has more of. And it is by far better engineered car, which can be easily seen - more space, smaller size, bigger engine, better mpg, better emissions, for same price.

Things like no telescopic steering wheel in CX7 would make me not purchase it - it is an car that starts at 25k. Same goes with Toyota options - Rav4 starts at 20k, so yes, it has optional features - whats the problem with that when you want top model anyway? Why not give people the choice?
 
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Discussion Starter #70
spwolfx said:
LA times, autobytel? Lol, those are syndicated reviews... lol.
Lol no they aren't try reading a little:

Autobytel
2007 Mazda CX-7 First Drive
Searching for paved prey in Mazda’s Metropolitan Hawk by Thom Blackett
LA Times
The new, thinner U
Mazda helps Americans get in shape for a reduced oil diet with the CX-7, a utility vehicle that's practical but not boring.
DAN NEIL

Which RAV4 has more of. And it is by far better engineered car, which can be easily seen - more space, smaller size, bigger engine, better mpg, better emissions, for same price.
Except when it comes more useful engineering features like handling, braking, rear access/bumper, direct injection technology, interior and exterior styling, ergonomics, seat comfort, overly intrusive stability control, and US spec standard/available features.

Also there are numerous linked reviews and older generation RAV4 owners on here that say the RAV4 has become blander/lost its character.
 

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I guess I will never understand the high performance SUV segment of the market. Why do people buy SUV such as CX7 or the FX. If I want a high performance vehicle, I would by a sports car. If I want a people / cargo hauler that can go off road or handle some winter driving, I would buy a SUV.
Simply put, a SUV is not meant to be driven hard. You can put all kind of high tech suspension on it and it still will not handle as well as a sports car.
 
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Discussion Starter #73
flyingn said:
The cx7 is a slug guys. The latest MT did a test and it bearly broke into the 15s!! Its a second faster 0-60 then the crv. LOL Its a bit quicker the the RAV4 4 banger but the RAV4 6 smokes it bad. .. *yawn*
Looks like you forgot to read the whole article. Its a slug that easily beats the RAV4 in overall performance (that is real world driving, both cars are pathetic for the drag strip). They save the yawning for the RAV4 :lol:

Canadian Driver said:
Driving the CX-7 is quite similar to the Murano - which places it worlds ahead of its price competitors; the RAV4 and the CR-V.
Road and Track said:
Motortrend said:
 
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syadasti said:
spwolfx said:
LA times, autobytel? Lol, those are syndicated reviews... lol.
Except when it comes more useful engineering features like handling, braking, rear access/bumper, direct injection technology, interior and exterior styling, ergonomics, seat comfort, overly intrusive stability control, and US spec standard/available features.

Also there are numerous linked reviews and older generation RAV4 owners on here that say the RAV4 has become blander/lost its character.
Again - direct injection yet you get worse mpg, whats the point? The point is in 4cly engine that needs premium and gets worse mpg than V6? :). You can hardly call it advantage.

Ergonomics in new Rav4 are pretty superb, I have no clue what you are talking about. Same goes for seat comfort - you think CX7 is going to be comfortable with a lot less space inside? :) . Handling and braking are pretty damn good in new rav4 again. Stability control didnt turn on for me when I drove a bit crazy on tight mountain roads during rain - so I am not sure how annoying it is really. Another thing you read in some review? :)

Old rav4 was great car, but new one does every single thing better - its called engineering. And new Rav4 has real bumper at back with steel protection bar inside.
 
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I just spent 6 months looking to buy a vehicle. I wanted a relaible and versitile mid size SUV with lots of power and good gas milage. I bought the RAV4 V6, this Mazda can't pass me on the road or at the gas station. I looked at them all and bought the RAV. I am sure there will be plenty of folks who choose the Mazda, but I am happy with my choice, and I think I got the best all around vehicle my money could buy. But go buy the CX-7 if that is what you think is the best vehicle for you.
 
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The only time the RAV4 V6 will have an advantage is from a stop due to the 250 lbs. weight advantage - more weight to push off the line and carry around so the mpg is lower.

Once the road gets twisty, sudden avoidance, sudden braking - all are far superior on the CX7.

SeriousBlack said:
guys, let the number of sales speak for themselves ... we shall see
We already know in the home market of Japan the new Outlander dominates the new RAV4, it ain't all that in the country that created all three of these new CUVs :lol:

Even still, bestseller does not equal best product. Mass produced products are almost never the best of the genre. Do you think McDonalds is the best food available :?

NEW MITSUBISHI OUTLANDER JAPAN’S BEST-SELLING SUV

19,000 sales since launch in mid-October

Customer confidence demonstrated


European launch to follow

Since its home market launch in October 2005, the all-new Mitsubishi Outlander has amassed more sales than any other SUV in Japan, placing it not only ahead of its own sales targets but also well ahead of the competition.

Accumulated sales of 18,921 put new Outlander at the top of the 6-month October-March SUV sales chart, ahead of the Toyota Harrier* and Toyota RAV4; Outlander was also top seller in November, December and February. Outlander’s closest rivals (Toyota RAV4 and Nissan X-Trail) each registered over 4,000 fewer sales than Outlander**, which outsells the Honda CR-V by more than three-to-one***. With an original sales target of 2,000 per month, new Outlander’s to-date sales figure represents an achievement rate of almost 160%.


A little over a year after Mitsubishi Motors Corporation’s new business plan was announced, the consistently strong sales of new Outlander show how confidence in the Mitsubishi brand - with an enviable heritage and fresh approach to design - is rapidly returning. Another Mitsubishi newcomer, the cleverly-engineered and futuristically-designed ‘i’, is also posting impressive sales figures. In its first month of sales, ‘i’ sold to 6,025 customers, against a target of 5,000.

Mitsubishi sales in Japan have now increased every month (when compared to the same month of the previous year) for the last 11 months (May 2005 to March 2006)****. When placed within the context of an increasingly competitive Japanese market that actually shrank slightly in 2005 (4.75 mio sales in CY 2005 vs. 4.77 mio sales in CY 2004)****, these results are even more significant.

New Outlander will soon be making a similar impact in export markets: its debut at the New York Auto Show on April 14th will be followed by its European debut during the first quarter of 2007. Landing right in the heart of the European mid-size SUV segment, new Outlander will doubtless make a contribution to the increasing success of Mitsubishi Motors in Europe (whose sales of 265,685 in 2005 represented an increase of 17.7% vs. 2004).

* Lexus RX in Europe

** Source: MMC, sales figures October 1st, 2005 - March 31st ,2006

*** Source: Japan Automobile Dealers Association, sales figures October 1st, 2005 - March 31st, 2006

**** Source: Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, Inc.
 

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how do you figure that braking is 'far superior' on the Mazda? Its not.. do your homework. Twisties? Lets get real. How many people who buy SUV's really push theirs thru the twisties?? Your gropping for straws now..

When the sales figures come out for the mazda the public will show how much better they like the Rav don't worry:)
 
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