[nickc72]

Fingers crossed the new car turns up this week but in the meantime I wondered about the above. Now here is what I imagined but I don't know if it is true as there seems to be some confusion in related threads...

1. It defaults to EV unless you stomp your foot down on the gas when it switches to HV.

2. Above a certain speed (65mph?) It switches to HV.

That would make sense?

Anyone regularly using auto mode and if so are the switch overs logical and noticeable? And in 1. what kind of delay is there between stomping said foot down and power delivery?

Or is everyone just using the manual switchover to HV when you think it best or most appropriate? For instance, because you actually want to use the battery on the highway for 40 miles or however far you can get on a full charge at 70mph?

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[nickc72]

From my experience it is #1.

In EV mode, power is capped off in the middle of the PWR section.

In Auto EV/HV mode, as soon as you gun it and the needle swings past the middle PWR section, the engine fires up.

Of course, if you exceed 84 mph, mode or no mode, engine fires up.

Personally I think Auto Mode is not good for the engine. You are asking it to provide surge power when cold. I think that’s is why Toyota made it not sticky.


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Cheers Jaz. I think that's probably good enough reason for me to just avoid it. I'll stick to manual selection. Most of the time I'll be in EV mode but for long highway trips I'll switch over to HV and just use the EV mode for the beginning and end of journey's through the towns when under 40mph.

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[nickc72]

That is how I use mine. Never had a situation I didn’t have enough power to get out of the way in EV mode yet. And I live it Texas with 85 mph speed limit on highways.


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Cheers buddy.

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[nickc72]

I have 35 mile one way commute all highway and primarily flat. I use EV one way in the morning. If I can charge near work , I do and then let it auto flip to HV on the way home.

When going up prolonged hills, I select Charge (Hold) w/ Sport mode to ensure I have the engine one and available for responsiveness. If it really needs the engine, it drops out of Charge (Hold).

I recently switched the HUD to show the tachometer as the Charge/Eco/Pwr is on the dash.

Thanks. Charge hold is where the ICE charges the battery right?

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[nickc72]

Thanks each. Really helpful. Car was due for delivery tomorrow but some kind of f... up by my company car folk now means later this week or early next.

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[nickc72]

It still won't have much time to do so, and the oil will be cold at first startup. If you're in Auto EV/HV and the engine's been sitting unused for a week and a half, and then you suddenly mash the throttle, the engine immediately starts and revs, giving the oil very little time to circulate. That makes me very uncomfortable; I'd much rather give the engine closer to a full minute (or longer), especially in cold weather, so that all the engine surfaces and bearings get completely coated. Call me paranoid, but I'd much rather do that and have an engine that'll last 200,000 miles than risk premature bearing failure somewhere.

Good plan. I suspect I'm going to switch on the ICE thru hybrid mode selection for the first couple of minutes of any drive. Then return to EV mode for the rest unless I need some power when I'll temporarily switch to hybrid noting I've circulated some oil earlier and warmed things up a little. I'll leave the ice running a little longer in winter.

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[nickc72]

I was reading a Reddit post which said they were getting 60 miles EV. Photo was provided.

Here is what they're doing...

EV mode at lower speeds
Manually switch to Hybrid for higher speeds like on the highway
Enabling sport mode for down hill parts to get max regen. There's a YouTube showing how the charge gauge massively increases the charge just by switching modes.

Fascinating stuff. So I just wonder whether Auto mode really does give you the optimal mpg and EV range per charge versus a human intelligence approach which also brings the sport mode regen into the mix?

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[nickc72]

If they're manually switching it into HV mode, the test for total EV miles is invalid. During that highway driving, they're generating some amount of electricity from gas, even if they're not in charge mode. The only true test of total EV range is to run from full battery to the point that you're forced into HV mode WITHOUT the engine running at all in between.

Are we really sure that in HV mode we are generating electricity to go into the battery and which beyond deceleration regen? Or are we saying that there's more juice going into the battery than regen alone?

I think you're right on it not being a fair test if any part of the above is correct but at the end of the day for each persons driving routes we ate just trying to optimise (minimise) cost per mile. I'm just not sure what the best method is of doing that is?

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[nickc72]

Yes. The engine is putting some electricity into the battery. And then the car is using some of that when the engine kicks off, just like in a regular hybrid. If the battery relied on regen alone, it would go completely dead because the buffer would be used up quicker than the electricity could be replaced. While it's possible to drive the car without the ICE, it's not possible to drive the car without the electric motors, so there always needs to be a reserve in the battery.

But isn't it only topping up the 'blue' out of reach or segregated zone of the battery and not the EV mode accessible part? Regen being the exception.

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[nickc72]

Yes.

When I was driving on our motorway on a flat area with a relatively low speed limit (60mph), I noticed the engine cycling on and off. If you glance at the power monitor every now and then (because your eyes are on the road), you'll notice that the engine is sending power to the wheels and the battery simultaneously. After a period of time doing that, it cuts the engine off and coast along on the electricity it generated.

On good, flat road conditions with moderate speeds, it takes very little power to keep the vehicle moving, relative to acceleration. A traditional ICE engine has to maintain a certain RPM because of the transmission's limited gear ratios. Because of that, it HAS to supply some gasoline to keep the engine from turning into an air compressor. On our RAV4s, that's not the case. It runs the engine at the RPM at which it is the most thermally efficient. This speed produces excess power than is needed to keep the vehicle moving, so MG1 collects that and stores it in the battery.

Thanks Tim. Yeh I get this and the General's comment too. But there's surely a difference in what is happening in the segregated blue battery zone for hybrid purposes to the range a user can achieve in EV only mode which only uses the green unreserved portion of the battery?

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[nickc72]

Yes. It won't run the engine continuously to push the charge level past the blue section like it does in Charge mode. But it has to generate some electricity even to keep it at the top of the blue section.

Got it thanks.
So in the case of switching modes using judgement to get the most range from a full charge (accessible green zone) then the only flaw in this test is the amount of regen achieved whilst the user was in HV mode? Since any ICE generator charging is only there to ensure the blue inaccessible zone is charged up at all times.

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[nickc72]

I would invite you to question exactly why and to what degree of accuracy you are trying to maximize your range. You're playing a numbers game with very little actual HARD data, just inferences and occasional observations. You'll be spending so much time listening to the motor, switching the power mode, switching the performance mode, and for all that effort do you really think you're going to gain significant mileage to make all that effort worth it?

I, too, find these vehicles fascinating, but the most fascinating aspect is that I can get in it and just drive with confidence that the computer knows more about the vehicle that I do every microsecond of the drive and is working to be the most efficient that it can.

Put the car in EV + Eco.
If you get on a highway, switch to HV.
Don't floor the accelerator.
Brake gently.

Those tips are all in the owner's manual on how to drive the car in the most eco-friendly manner. Everything else discussed on this forum - absent of quantitative data - is not worth obsessing over.

I have a little less confidence in the engineers doing the engineering. I'm usually the guy brought in to sort a lot of engineering problems out so I'm going try some experiments up until Christmas to see where things end up.
We need to put that AI model together [emoji6]

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[nickc72]

Part of my job is QA on my peer's code. I get it. A healthy amount of skepticism is a cornerstone of critical thought.

But there is a line between being skeptical of the car's powertrain logic and thinking you can consistently operate the powertrain far better than the engineer's designed it to perform, especially if that involves operating the RAV4 like a digger where you're having to push buttons or turn knobs constantly.

Not my experience Tim. Generally speaking with complex electromechanical automation there are all kinds of compromises and trade offs made. The manufacturer designs for the average and majority. User, environment and context. So there's every chance that your unique circumstances could be better served through tweaking the dials yourself but don't expect it to be by too much.


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