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Luckily I looked at the manual and it states ws tranny fluid only, i thought it was type 4 fluid, thats what my 02 4 cyl camry took and same AZfe engine.
 

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The Drifter said:
Newer toyota's like the 4.3 use WS (world standard) transmission fluid now. Note: it does NOT mix with any other type of fluid.

Now heres a good question, does your RAV still have a dipstick for the trans? :lol:
Why do all the Toyota dealerships ask me that whenever I come in to buy Toyota's WS fluid?

I did a drain and refill recently. Came in to the dealer and ordered 5 quarts of the WS fluid. The guy at the counter kept asking me if I'm sure I know what I'm doing. He kept babbling about my car not having an ATF dipstick and how he didn't want to sell me the fluid because he didn't want to be responsible for me damaging my car. He said all the newer Toyota's that take WS fluid do not have a dipstick.

Anyways, I had to pull the guy outside to my car and show him the dipstick. This was the second time this happened.

Do the newer Toyota's not have tranny dipsticks anymore? I know my 2007 V6 Rav4 has one. I do my basic fluid maintenance and if I can help it, I will not buy a car that doesn't have a transmission dipstick.
 

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Ok, so heres the full story (well, ONE of the stories behind the WS swap): Somewhere in toyota land a year or two ago, an engineer came up with the idea of a dipstick-less trans to prevent quick-lube and other shops from tampering with the trans fluid (i.e. adding the wrong fluid, not checking the level correctly, etc.). Since there wouldnt be a dipstick, they used the new WS fluid, which is supposedly non-serviceable and lasts the entire lifetime of the trans.

The problem with this idea is that now that it doesnt have a dipstick, there was no way to correctly tell how much fluid was in the trans, so they came up with the WORST system I've ever heard of to check the transmission level. It involves removing a SPECIAL 2nd drain plug in the trans pan and watching the amount of fluid dripping out at a certain temperature. The problem with this was the vehicle had to be PERFECTLY level, and could only be done in a 7 degree Fahrenheit window. If you went past that window, you had to stop, let the trans cool, fill it back up with fluid, and do it all over again. VERY, VEERY time consuming for us.

So in the end, toyota just recently started using dipsticks again on newer vehicles (2009+. As for your 2007, thats a new one for me too.). And a lot of dealerships still dont realize that this has happened yet (hell, I didnt even know it untill I had a new RAV and a new Tundra come in that both had them), so there is a lot of confusion on this topic. Especially seeing as how toyota isnt really telling us anything about it.

It really sucks for you all as customers, as WS is usually a GOOD amount more expensive than T-4.
 

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The Drifter said:
Ok, so heres the full story (well, ONE of the stories behind the WS swap): Somewhere in toyota land a year or two ago, an engineer came up with the idea of a dipstick-less trans to prevent quick-lube and other shops from tampering with the trans fluid (i.e. adding the wrong fluid, not checking the level correctly, etc.). Since there wouldnt be a dipstick, they used the new WS fluid, which is supposedly non-serviceable and lasts the entire lifetime of the trans.

The problem with this idea is that now that it doesnt have a dipstick, there was no way to correctly tell how much fluid was in the trans, so they came up with the WORST system I've ever heard of to check the transmission level. It involves removing a SPECIAL 2nd drain plug in the trans pan and watching the amount of fluid dripping out at a certain temperature. The problem with this was the vehicle had to be PERFECTLY level, and could only be done in a 7 degree Fahrenheit window. If you went past that window, you had to stop, let the trans cool, fill it back up with fluid, and do it all over again. VERY, VEERY time consuming for us.

So in the end, toyota just recently started using dipsticks again on newer vehicles (2009+. As for your 2007, thats a new one for me too.). And a lot of dealerships still dont realize that this has happened yet (hell, I didnt even know it untill I had a new RAV and a new Tundra come in that both had them), so there is a lot of confusion on this topic. Especially seeing as how toyota isnt really telling us anything about it.

It really sucks for you all as customers, as WS is usually a GOOD amount more expensive than T-4.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes the dealer I visited said all Toyota's using the WS fluid had a sealed transmission with no dipstick and required a complicated system of checking the level and also servicing the fluid. He refused to sell me WS fluid because he thought I'd drain the oil and realize there is no where to fill the transmission. So I had to pull him outside and show him where the ATF dipstick is.

So I'm confused as my 07 Toyota Rav4 V6 DOES have a transmission dipstick and drain plug. I'm glad it does as I'm able to do drain and refills. I just can't believe the WS fluid is a lifetime fluid. It may be overload, but I'll do drain and refills every 15-20k miles.
 

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Changing your WS fluid every 10K to 20K miles is the equivalent of change your engine oil every 500 to a 1000 miles, way over kill.
 

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My 2008 V6 also has a dipstick. There is a label on it that states "No need to replace ATF under normal driving conditions." So it must be the WS fluid.
 

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Toyota is securing future transmission swaps if the trans is not serviced on a regular basis. I do mine every 40000 miles. The parts girl tried to do the same thing to me and not sell me Toyota's ATF. Had to show her in the parking lot there in fact was a dipstick on the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The Drifter said:
Newer toyota's like the 4.3 use WS (world standard) transmission fluid now. Note: it does NOT mix with any other type of fluid.

Now heres a good question, does your RAV still have a dipstick for the trans? :lol:
Yes just changed the AT fluid yesterday. 8 bucks a quart.
 

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junebug1701 said:
My 2008 V6 also has a dipstick. There is a label on it that states "No need to replace ATF under normal driving conditions." So it must be the WS fluid.
I think my 08 does too...I'd go out and look to confirm but it is snowing hard :roll:
 

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ordpete944 said:
Toyota is securing future transmission swaps if the trans is not serviced on a regular basis. I do mine every 40000 miles. The parts girl tried to do the same thing to me and not sell me Toyota's ATF. Had to show her in the parking lot there in fact was a dipstick on the car.
If that is the case, then Toyota can make more money by securing engine swap if they change their engine oil change interval to 20000 miles.
 

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The G Man said:
Changing your WS fluid every 10K to 20K miles is the equivalent of change your engine oil every 500 to a 1000 miles, way over kill.
I agree. Doing so within that mileage range is a complete waste of time and money.

P.S. my 08 RAV has a tranny dipstick.
 

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I was happy to find an ATF dipstick (no label) on my new 2009 V-6 RAV4 this morning. I plan to do a full flush on it every 30K miles. Does anyone know what the total capcity of ATF is for the tranny and final drive on the baseline FWD model is?

BTW, one of the Toyota service advisors scoffed at me when I was considering buying the car for asking about flushing the tranny on regular intervals. He said it was a sealed unit with no dipstick and never needed serviced. It always amazes me how ignorant service departments are, and how they refuse to get any smarter.
 

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The G Man said:
Changing your WS fluid every 10K to 20K miles is the equivalent of change your engine oil every 500 to a 1000 miles, way over kill.
I don't know...changing out only 1/3 of the total sump every 15-20k miles to me isn't overkill. Maybe I should switch to 30k miles? I'm not doing a flush, just a simple drain and refill which gets out less than 40% of the fluids out. If I'm only getting out 1/3 of the fluid, it would take 3-5 changes to get most of the old fluid out. At my rate that would be 60-100k miles.

I'm used to doing drain and refills of the transmission on all my cars and usually no later than 30k miles. I plan it with one of my scheduled engine oil change. And a transmission drain is easier to do because there is no external filter to mess with.

I guess it might be overkill...but I have too much time on my hands.
 

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Under normal driving conditions, if you dont tow, Toyota recommands a 100000 miles tanny fluid change. Doing so at 70000 is a good safe bet.
 

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The Drifter said:
So in the end, toyota just recently started using dipsticks again on newer vehicles (2009+. As for your 2007, thats a new one for me too.). And a lot of dealerships still dont realize that this has happened yet (hell, I didnt even know it untill I had a new RAV and a new Tundra come in that both had them), so there is a lot of confusion on this topic. Especially seeing as how toyota isnt really telling us anything about it.

It really sucks for you all as customers, as WS is usually a GOOD amount more expensive than T-4.
Boy, you are so clueless. Are you sure you are a Toyota mechanic?

My 2006 RAV4 (with WS fluid) has a tranny dipstick.

Now, if you were really a Toyota mechanic, you would know that WS is fully synthetic, while T-IV was not. WS is not that much more expensive.
 

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The G Man said:
Under normal driving conditions, if you dont tow, Toyota recommands a 100000 miles tanny fluid change. Doing so at 70000 is a good safe bet.
If you search for used oil analyses, the WS is degraded (viscosity loss) at 60,000 while T-IV is under 30,000 miles. Thus, 60,000 miles interval (30,000 towing) is a good spot for WS.
 

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The Drifter said:
Ok, so heres the full story (well, ONE of the stories behind the WS swap): Somewhere in toyota land a year or two ago, an engineer came up with the idea of a dipstick-less trans to prevent quick-lube and other shops from tampering with the trans fluid (i.e. adding the wrong fluid, not checking the level correctly, etc.). Since there wouldnt be a dipstick, they used the new WS fluid, which is supposedly non-serviceable and lasts the entire lifetime of the trans.

The problem with this idea is that now that it doesnt have a dipstick, there was no way to correctly tell how much fluid was in the trans, so they came up with the WORST system I've ever heard of to check the transmission level. It involves removing a SPECIAL 2nd drain plug in the trans pan and watching the amount of fluid dripping out at a certain temperature. The problem with this was the vehicle had to be PERFECTLY level, and could only be done in a 7 degree Fahrenheit window. If you went past that window, you had to stop, let the trans cool, fill it back up with fluid, and do it all over again. VERY, VEERY time consuming for us.


So in the end, toyota just recently started using dipsticks again on newer vehicles (2009+. As for your 2007, thats a new one for me too.). And a lot of dealerships still dont realize that this has happened yet (hell, I didnt even know it untill I had a new RAV and a new Tundra come in that both had them), so there is a lot of confusion on this topic. Especially seeing as how toyota isnt really telling us anything about it.

It really sucks for you all as customers, as WS is usually a GOOD amount more expensive than T-4.
I am just starting to familiarize myself with my 1 week old Rav V6 . I checked the oil etc and looked around engine compartment and did not see a tranny dipstick anywhere.

I have not read my book yet , but the quick guide does not refer to a dipstick, and I did not see any ,even though I was looking for it.


Mine is a 2009 and where would it be ? Also if I dont have one , can I ask Toyota to do the coversion someone mentioned, before I ship the car the Greece ?
 
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