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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2019 Hybrid XLE and can't put a full tank of gas in it. If you had to do it all over again which defect would you prefer to live with and why?

(I won't even post the link for the Hybrid Fuel Thread, everyone knows about it.

What is interesting is that most professional reviews even mention how jerky the 8 speed gas transmission is...and they don't usually mention such things.

I'd be willing to wager that this is Toyota's worst new vehicle launch, ever.

Can anyone think of a worse launch? (I know they just recalled nearly 1 million vehicles TODAY for failing fuel pumps. That causes STALLING WHILE DRIVING.

What I also find interesting is THEY DON'T HAVE A FIX right now.

I wonder if they are having major problems with their powertrain engineering, and their fuel delivery systems.....

This is all very unToyota like....My 4Runner (I've had two), Highlander and Corolla have all been reliable...

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Gas/8 Speed Transmission:


After 3 months of putting up with this ridiculous 8 speed transmission in my 2018 Highlander, it started to develop harsh up/down-shifts between 1-2 and the identity crisis between gears as described. I traded it in on the weekend for another manufacturer/model because I just couldn't deal with it any longer.

Test drove a 2019 Camry with 8 speed and transmission had jerking motion. Sales man said it was because car was cold. I ran away after reading about the problems with the 2018 car.

There seem to be mixed results on the TSB, some are happy, others say it causes a new bug.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/rav4club/comments/blwwpc
So I have a Rav4 Adventure with the same moan noise around 20-30 mph. I took in in last friday, they had it for a week. They replaced the Transfer Case Electromagnetic Clutch Assembly. I drove it home, about 40 min and as I pulled into my street , THE SOUND CAME BACK!!!!! I am so pissed :( I will be calling them on tuesday to let them know the fix did not fix the issue :( I am bummed. My RAV was 41,000.00. it has 6000 miles and it should not have issues already

I have the 2019 limited as well and am in Ontario Canada. It’s not a software fix. The dealer I go to put mics on the car to find the noise. It is the transfer case clutch. There is a TSB for it. However no parts are available..... I’m in to month 5 of dealing with this. I have requested a meeting with Toyota Canada. And given them a month to sort this out or I’m returning it. It’s a lease. And I pay a lot for it. Press your dealership!!! Good luck
 

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Both the transmission jerk/lurch and rear driveline disconnect have TSBs and have been fixed, the same can't be said for the HV refueling issue.

I can also confirm this works, took my 2019 XLE in for 5000 mile service it had been hesitating and bucking at every single rolling stop. I printed out TSB listed above handed it to them and stated it was hesitating at rolling stops. They didn't really leave much info on the invoice if they confirmed it or not but i assumed they flashed the ECU because the hesitation is gone completely i was trying to get the car to do it on purpose and it wouldn't where as before i was training myself to get it not to do it what a relief!!! THANK YOU OP!!! View attachment 147716
I have approx. 5000kms on mine since electromagnetic clutch replacement. No noise, no issues so far
 

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Why are you concerned that they don't have a fix to the fuel pump problem? That's how every recall I've ever had has worked: when there's a safety issue, the manufacturers issue an immediate notice so owners are aware of the issue and can mitigate it until a fix is ready. Would you rather they not tell owners until they have a fix?

To clarify your question a bit, there's actually four problems to compare. Many RAV4s have what manifests as an excessive fuel reserve, while others can't fill the tank. Both problems share some common symptoms, so they get lumped together (and maybe they have the same cause, who knows ... but I'll treat them as separate here).

If I had to choose between these four problems, I'd rank them as follows, starting with the least problematic:

  1. Hybrid/Excessive reserve. The fuel gauge is extra, extra conservative. That's not that big of a deal, in the grand scheme of things. It's a good idea to refuel at a quarter tank anyway, which is right about when it says empty. I'd guess that the majority of owners with this problem may never even know it -- the car just acts like it has a 12 gallon tank, which is still plenty for most people when you're getting 35-40+ mpg.
  2. Hybrid/Refill problems. Most people can manage to fill their tank ... albeit slowly. It's only a problem at when refueling, which is a periodic activity, not every time you get in the car. If I lived in Oregon or New Jersey, where you can't even pump your own gas, this becomes significantly more annoying. There also seems to be some variation in the severity of the problem (some people get nearly full every time, others can't get it past a quarter tank).
  3. Gas/Lurching. The car technically works fine, nothing is breaking or broken ... but the drive quality is significantly reduced. Worse, it's a problem every time you get in the car. Almost every time you press on the pedal from a stop, from what I hear.
  4. Adventure/Disconnect noise. Noises like this can often indicate more serious issues, and some part in the power train might be about to fail soon, which is catastrophic. If, in fact, it doesn't indicate a potential part failure, that places it closer to the lurching problem in my book.
That said ... there's TSBs for the latter two issues. Would you rather have a milder problem that will hopefully be fixed, or a more major problem where the fix already exists? I guess I'd still rather have the excessive reserve issue of the four, because a fix almost isn't necessary anyway (even with the problem it still has equal or better range than the gas vehicles). After that, I'd probably rather have a problem where a fix is already in place.
 

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I actually don't think these three problems are that bad for year 1 of a vehicle - at least compared to other vehicles I have owned. I imagine I will get flamed for this comment, but its true.

So two of the issues have a TSB already. The 8 speed issue seemed to be very early models that needed the TSB, and while I feel for those that had that issue, and not all of them did. Even so, yes its inherently jerky - that is the torque converter locking and unlocking mostly. I guess I would rather have that than the sponge they call a CVT.

The AWD lockup sounds like its just a noise problem. And yes, you shouldn't have a noise problem on your new car, but really, sounds mostly like a first world problem than a real problem.

The hybrid fuel tank seems to be the most widespread of the 3, and likely the most annoying. Many people purchased a hybrid for its range. Its quite possible they already have a fix and are waiting for the EPA and TSB. Or maybe it will never be fixed. If instead of selling it with a 14.5 gallon tank, they sold it with a functioning 10 gallon tank, I think most people would still have purchased it. They might complain that Toyota made it too small, but it probably wouldn't be as annoying.

Honestly I think all three are manageable when you consider the other positive merits of these vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah I'm just frustrated, bummed and disappointed.

It seems not everyone is happy with the TSB on the 8 speed. It still shifts clunky for some.

And now a million brand new toyotas and Lexus recalled with fuel pumps. What's most telling to me is their inability to repair. I mean these cars are stalling while driving!!

I am concerned that I can no longer just buy a Toyota and assume it is reliable. They haven't consistently had problems like this before.

Seriously the 8 speed has plagued THREE DIFFERENT models.

I think this massive fuel pump recall is going to divert lots of time and resources away from my problem with our xle hybrid.

The are stating it could be until March or later for fuel pumps...so I'm no longer confident there will be a fix any time soon, if ever...

I'm discouraged by the lack of quality. Our 2017 Corolla had a TSB on the cvt already too.

It's not like you can run to Honda or Nissan.

They are clearly rushing to production and getting sloppy.

The 6 speed in the prior rav4 was bombproof and smooth....
 

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I don't own a Rav4, or Toyota, so technically I don't meet the requirements for the question asked. With that said I could live with the fuel tank issues that the hybrid is having, and I would purchase a hybrid if I could afford it knowing it had those problems. Since I can't afford it i'll just keep driving my beat up Mazda 6.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't own a Rav4, or Toyota, so technically I don't meet the requirements for the question asked. With that said I could live with the fuel tank issues that the hybrid is having, and I would purchase a hybrid if I could afford it knowing it had those problems. Since I can't afford it i'll just keep driving my beat up Mazda 6.
are you considering the new Rav4? If you can wait, i'd give it another year....just to make sure these issues get ironed out. I REALLY like the CX5 better but i've never owned a Mazda before and there is only one dealer that isn't very close.
 

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are you considering the new Rav4? If you can wait, i'd give it another year....just to make sure these issues get ironed out. I REALLY like the CX5 better but i've never owned a Mazda before and there is only one dealer that isn't very close.
Considering a 2020 Rav4 for sure. I'd love a hybrid, or the prime, but realistically the standard 2020 xle rav4 would be more in line with my budget. I have owned 2 Mazdas; a 2002 Mazda protege, and a 2006 Mazda 6 which I still have and is my daily driver. Both of them have been pretty solid. My mazda 6 looks like a golf ball due to sever hail damage, but it drives fine.

The CX5 is the best looking CUV IMO. If they made the turbo a standard feature, or even just cheaper, then it would be an easy pick. I'll wait to see how the new CRV hybrid does, and hopefully Toyota can fix some bugs with their Rav.
 

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2019 Limited AWD. I had the "lurch," but managed to deal with it quite well, most of the time. I've had the TSB applied, and I haven't seen anything resembling the "lurch," since. That's completely fixed, from my experience, which is somewhere around 2,500 miles since the application. I don't believe that there is anything "wrong with the transmission" -- it's all about the programming that would drop it down into first in "pause and go" situations, and from what I understand, the new program will let it drop down to second, instead. Not the most technical description, but that's basically all there is to it.

My vehicle started "groaning" some time after 10,000 miles. It only happens if I go through 20 - 24 MPH, and pretty much don't speed up beyond that. If I accelerate up to 25 MPH or higher, it doesn't happen. If I accelerate to less than 20 MPH, it doesn't happen. And the reverse is true when decelerating. I can go a week without hearing it, depending on how I'm accelerating or decelerating around 20 - 24 MPH. Frankly, I think this adds up to "I have a mechanical mechanism that makes a mechanical noise when it operates." "Sometimes." And those "times" are when going through 20 - 24 MPH, as I just described. The fact that it doesn't make any noise all of the rest of the time -- which is at least 90% of the time with my driving routines -- makes me substantially doubt that there is anything horrifyingly "wrong" with the thing. Still, like with the "lurch" issue, if Toyota comes out with a TSB, and we hear from folks that the TSB seems to quiet that noise, I'll take mine in and have the TSB applied. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry much about it, beyond just keeping an eye and ear on it. I seriously doubt that anyone has any actual evidence at all that "the groan" is due to some kind of "defect" that is going to make the car undrivable at some point far earlier in the vehicle's life, or something like that. If it does ever get to that point, I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that Toyota will indeed have a TSB to deal with it. In the end, it appears that Toyota hasn't figured out how to quiet "the groan," and I haven't heard of any of the parts that have been "accused" regarding this issue that have failed prematurely.

In summary, the "lurch" was a programming issue, which a change to the programming fixed. "The groan," from what I can glean, hasn't been solved by Toyota yet, but I think it's a whale of a jump to consider it anything massively beyond "a noise that happens at a certain RPM with a part that's rotating."
 

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2019 Limited AWD. I had the "lurch," but managed to deal with it quite well, most of the time. I've had the TSB applied, and I haven't seen anything resembling the "lurch," since. That's completely fixed, from my experience, which is somewhere around 2,500 miles since the application. I don't believe that there is anything "wrong with the transmission" -- it's all about the programming that would drop it down into first in "pause and go" situations, and from what I understand, the new program will let it drop down to second, instead. Not the most technical description, but that's basically all there is to it.

My vehicle started "groaning" some time after 10,000 miles. It only happens if I go through 20 - 24 MPH, and pretty much don't speed up beyond that. If I accelerate up to 25 MPH or higher, it doesn't happen. If I accelerate to less than 20 MPH, it doesn't happen. And the reverse is true when decelerating. I can go a week without hearing it, depending on how I'm accelerating or decelerating around 20 - 24 MPH. Frankly, I think this adds up to "I have a mechanical mechanism that makes a mechanical noise when it operates." "Sometimes." And those "times" are when going through 20 - 24 MPH, as I just described. The fact that it doesn't make any noise all of the rest of the time -- which is at least 90% of the time with my driving routines -- makes me substantially doubt that there is anything horrifyingly "wrong" with the thing. Still, like with the "lurch" issue, if Toyota comes out with a TSB, and we hear from folks that the TSB seems to quiet that noise, I'll take mine in and have the TSB applied. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry much about it, beyond just keeping an eye and ear on it. I seriously doubt that anyone has any actual evidence at all that "the groan" is due to some kind of "defect" that is going to make the car undrivable at some point far earlier in the vehicle's life, or something like that. If it does ever get to that point, I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that Toyota will indeed have a TSB to deal with it. In the end, it appears that Toyota hasn't figured out how to quiet "the groan," and I haven't heard of any of the parts that have been "accused" regarding this issue that have failed prematurely.

In summary, the "lurch" was a programming issue, which a change to the programming fixed. "The groan," from what I can glean, hasn't been solved by Toyota yet, but I think it's a whale of a jump to consider it anything massively beyond "a noise that happens at a certain RPM with a part that's rotating."
Your second problem seems to match the description in the service bulletin here: Transfer case Warranty Repair
 

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Well, yeah, that's kind of the "gleaning" I keep mentioning. That thread links to another thread, which mostly talks about noises other than the "groan," and the original thread isn't exactly showing a whole lot of consistent "I had this applied and it fixed the problem" posts, and so on. It is indeed "a very invasive" procedure, and there just "isn't enough meat on the bones" to get me to jump into that whole mess at this point. I'm quite aware of the pressure that dealerships go through with warranty work, so it's rather still in the "would I rather listen to the groan every now and then, or have some inexperienced technician rush through some work on my transfer case?" phase, for me. I'm more than willing to sit tight at this point, and get more information from other folks who might get this done, for the dealerships to get more experience with the repair, and so on. Especially with "that other thread," I haven't really been able to even keep track of what exactly they're talking about at any given time. I'll let this one simmer for a while, before I'll take my car to the dealership and have them touch it. And even then, if I hear anything resembling "we've never heard of this one before," I'll just excuse myself and get my car the heck out of there. ;)
 

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Yeah I'm just frustrated, bummed and disappointed.

It seems not everyone is happy with the TSB on the 8 speed. It still shifts clunky for some.

And now a million brand new toyotas and Lexus recalled with fuel pumps. What's most telling to me is their inability to repair. I mean these cars are stalling while driving!!

I am concerned that I can no longer just buy a Toyota and assume it is reliable. They haven't consistently had problems like this before.

Seriously the 8 speed has plagued THREE DIFFERENT models.

I think this massive fuel pump recall is going to divert lots of time and resources away from my problem with our xle hybrid.

The are stating it could be until March or later for fuel pumps...so I'm no longer confident there will be a fix any time soon, if ever...

I'm discouraged by the lack of quality. Our 2017 Corolla had a TSB on the cvt already too.

It's not like you can run to Honda or Nissan.

They are clearly rushing to production and getting sloppy.

The 6 speed in the prior rav4 was bombproof and smooth....
I have been saying for a while vehicle design has peaked 10 years ago in terms of reliability, however 10 years ago average MPG was 5 points less. There trying to do too much with too little. The 8 speed transmission and CVT transmissions are 100% driven by CAFE / MPG standards. I am certain the HEV fueling issue will turn out to be completely driven by emission requirements also. Its not too different from when emissions became a thing in the 70's. During the 70's all cars sucked - a lot. However by the late 80's cars were starting to become better than they ever had been. Probably where we are now.
 
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