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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I believe I have found a security problem with my new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The key fob for my wife's 2021 Mazda MX5 Miata starts and runs the Toyota.

As I was leaving my house to run errands, I grabbed the wrong key fob from a drawer. They all look identical. I was surprised to discover that the Mazda key fob starts and runs my Toyota. Have you ever heard of this before? Has anyone reported a similar security problem?
 

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I believe I have found a security problem with my new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The key fob for my wife's 2021 Mazda MX5 Miata starts and runs the Toyota.

As I was leaving my house to run errands, I grabbed the wrong key fob from a drawer. They all look identical. I was surprised to discover that the Mazda key fob starts and runs my Toyota. Have you ever heard of this before? Has anyone reported a similar security problem?
Wow! That is very interesting. Toyota and Mazda have a joint-venture (Mazda Toyota Manufacturing), but this is certainly taking it to new heights. :)

To answer your question, I've not heard of this before. And it's a bit disconcerting.
 

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I could start the forklift at work with my 88 Celica keys. It's pretty common. There are only so many cuts on a wafer core you can do before having to repeat. Sounds like enough pins are at just the right height to turn the core, thus turning on the engine. Now if you have an immobilizer then this is indeed a rare occurrence.
 

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I could start the forklift at work with my 88 Celica keys. It's pretty common.
There are no keys here... unless I've misunderstood, the OP can start his Prime by simply pressing the start button on the dash while carrying the Mazda FOB. That is definitely not common.

At a (very) high level, the key FOBs are initialized/paired with the vehicle using a pseudorandom number generated seed, which is supposed to be... well, random and unique. This seed is used to generate rolling codes, which are essentially unique codes used each time the FOB and vehicle communicate. If the next code in the rolling code sequence doesn't match, the FOB operation doesn't work.

Curious though, there was no mention of locking/unlocking the Prime with the Mazda FOB. Does that also work, or just starting the Prime?

From my perspective, it's not good either way.
 

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Interesting. It could very well be that Toyota/Lexus and Mazda use the same key fob manufacture.

Wife's Miata FOB could be identical to the husband R4P, internally (chips, etc), but obviously look different on the outside.

Hope OP reports back. Hopefully it was just an issue of OP never turned the R4P OFF when he returned w/ wife's Mita FOB.
 

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I think the odds of this are slim to none and the OP will discover he was mistaken in some way, either via the correct fob being in close proximity or something else.
I think I agree. I'm not willing to totally discredit, but I'd need more info. OP has just joined, and it is a first post, using what looks like a stock photo avatar...

As my daughter would say... it's sketch. But I will remain open minded and continue to follow.

dp
 

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Just to make sure I understand the statement;
Bad/no odds that OP was mistaken = Good odds that the Mazda key FOB starts Toyota R4P.

From Wiki;
The Sagan standard is a neologism abbreviating the aphorism that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (ECREE).[1] It is named after science communicator Carl Sagan who used the exact phrase on his television program Cosmos.

I think chances are slim to none that OP will provide extraordinary evidence (video) of the claim that the Mazda key fob has immobilizer for Toyota R4P. It is more likely a (human) mistake/misunderstanding in some way.

Need more data. Original Poster (OP), please come back and tell us what you found.
 

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Just to make sure I understand the statement;
Bad/no odds that OP was mistaken = Good odds that the Mazda key FOB starts Toyota R4P.

From Wiki;
The Sagan standard is a neologism abbreviating the aphorism that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (ECREE).[1] It is named after science communicator Carl Sagan who used the exact phrase on his television program Cosmos.

I think chances are slim to none that OP will provide extraordinary evidence (video) of the claim that the Mazda key fob has immobilizer for Toyota R4P. It is more likely a (human) mistake/misunderstanding in some way.

Need more data. Original Poster (OP), please come back and tell us what you found.
Chazz, you get extra credit just for bringing up Carl Sagan, and finding a way to include Dr Sagan in a car forum... Extra points 😉

dp
 

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If he doesn't come back, it was a troll post for sure. Looks like he got the reaction he wanted.

Have a good day.
 

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I believe I have found a security problem with my new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The key fob for my wife's 2021 Mazda MX5 Miata starts and runs the Toyota.

As I was leaving my house to run errands, I grabbed the wrong key fob from a drawer. They all look identical. I was surprised to discover that the Mazda key fob starts and runs my Toyota. Have you ever heard of this before? Has anyone reported a similar security problem?
this got to be a hoax. the probability is just too low for this to occur.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I believe I have found a security problem with my new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The key fob for my wife's 2021 Mazda MX5 Miata starts and runs the Toyota.

As I was leaving my house to run errands, I grabbed the wrong key fob from a drawer. They all look identical. I was surprised to discover that the Mazda key fob starts and runs my Toyota. Have you ever heard of this before? Has anyone reported a similar security problem?
I made a video of the RAV4 being started and stopped with my wife's Miata fob.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There are no keys here... unless I've misunderstood, the OP can start his Prime by simply pressing the start button on the dash while carrying the Mazda FOB. That is definitely not common.

At a (very) high level, the key FOBs are initialized/paired with the vehicle using a pseudorandom number generated seed, which is supposed to be... well, random and unique. This seed is used to generate rolling codes, which are essentially unique codes used each time the FOB and vehicle communicate. If the next code in the rolling code sequence doesn't match, the FOB operation doesn't work.

Curious though, there was no mention of locking/unlocking the Prime with the Mazda FOB. Does that also work, or just starting the Prime?

From my perspective, it's not good either way.
The Miata key fob will not unlock the doors. But it starts the car.
 
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