[Grumpy old man]

Our 2014 RAV has also had this noise from new but I thought it was just me hearing things. The car had its first year or 15,000 Kilometer service 2 weeks ago and that noise is not so loud now.

 

[cwhfsr]

Mine makes the noise too but I changed over from a Dodge Magnum with a hemi and that thing made the worse lifter noise ever at start up so I haven't really thought about it. About 11k miles on my 2013 right now... guess I may have to take it to the dealer which will be really hard on a 1 car family to leave overnight.

 

[CircusEnvy]

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is. I had a Toyota Yaris for 9 years that did the same thing on cold starts and it ran like a Swiss watch.

 

[Bob K]

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is. I had a Toyota Yaris for 9 years that did the same thing on cold starts and it ran like a Swiss watch.

Apparently Toyota thinks it's a big deal. Damaged VVT-i mechanisms, gouging/scoring when the pin doesn't lock into place, a couple thousand dollars to fix it if it's out of warranty, some reports of catastrophic camshaft failure. (You can read the TSB in a previous post on this thread.) The Googles is also a wealth of info on customer experiences/repairs/photos.


The TSB spans multiple years, multiple makes, and multiple engines, so it's a challenge for us customers to figure out if the same startup noise is harmless or if Toyota simply hasn't discovered/acknowledged the extent of the problem.


Not all startup noise is good and not all startup noise is bad, so we have to be specific when talking about it.

 

[Bob K]

guess I may have to take it to the dealer which will be really hard on a 1 car family to leave overnight.

Recommend you take the TSB with you and see what the dealer has to say. 2013 Rav4s aren't currently covered by the TSB.

 

[1000MPH]

Bob K. Was your issue ever resolved? My 2015, January build is in the shop for this right now. The dealer has identified as a valid issue but needs the Toyota rep to confirm before proceeding. We are paying for a rental from the dealer which the service rep said "may" get reimbursed. Has anyone had Toyota pay rental fees for this type of warranty work?

 

[Bob K]

The Toyota dealer in Cheyenne admitted that the noise was coming from the VVT. However, the regional rep said it was "normal" and that Toyota would not be covering it under the TSB or under warranty.

My dealer said my next step was to elevate it to Toyota Care.

The 1-2 second rattle occurs on every cold startup and even on warm starts if my vehicle has sat for an hour or so.

 

[1000MPH]

Bob K. Was your issue ever resolved? My 2015, January build is in the shop for this right now. The dealer has identified as a valid issue but needs the Toyota rep to confirm before proceeding. We are paying for a rental from the dealer which the service rep said "may" get reimbursed. Has anyone had Toyota pay rental fees for this type of warranty work?

Update: Toyota rep says....normal:shrug:

 

[kiavash_b3]

Mine is 2014 and makes rattle noise at cold start or even when the engine is sat for half hour. Ive tried different type of oil in different climates frim 0 c to 45 c, didint change even in hotter weather it became worse. But the sound is not as bad as lexus rx

 

[Pooyagh]

Mine is 2014 and makes rattle noise at cold start or even when the engine is sat for half hour. Ive tried different type of oil in different climates frim 0 c to 45 c, didint change even in hotter weather it became worse. But the sound is not as bad as lexus rx

Thats really annoying[emoji28]toyota sucks this time[emoji107]

 

[Grumpy old man]

Well since I first posted about this noise last year it seemed to have stayed much the same until this morning. This time however I was stood next to the car when my wife started it and it sounded a bit harsher and louder than before. I phoned our dealer and asked him if he thought it was just normal? I told him that as I drive it most of the time and am obviously inside whilst it starts I don't usually hear it. He straight away asked if our garage floor was level and after I assured him it was he asked me to bring it in for an overnight stay next Wednesday. I mentioned that these days we only have one car and live a fair way from his workshop only to be told not to worry as they will give us a free of charge loan car. Part of me wants it to be normal but the other part wants something wrong to be found and mended.
Oh well roll on next Thursday the 3rd March even though I have a massive Tax bill to pay on the 4th.

 

[NewRav2013]

Well since I first posted about this noise last year it seemed to have stayed much the same until this morning. This time however I was stood next to the car when my wife started it and it sounded a bit harsher and louder than before. I phoned our dealer and asked him if he thought it was just normal? I told him that as I drive it most of the time and am obviously inside whilst it starts I don't usually hear it. He straight away asked if our garage floor was level and after I assured him it was he asked me to bring it in for an overnight stay next Wednesday. I mentioned that these days we only have one car and live a fair way from his workshop only to be told not to worry as they will give us a free of charge loan car. Part of me wants it to be normal but the other part wants something wrong to be found and mended.
Oh well roll on next Thursday the 3rd March even though I have a massive Tax bill to pay on the 4th.

I identify with you and this irritates me no end. Until the noise lengthens, if it does, not worth the time a the dealer. I hate the 'is there something wrong with your car' look from others I get sometimes......
I like engines like in my old Highlander or Tacoma that are noiseless at startup and don't understand the thinking in engineering stuff this way. But our 2013 hasn't changed in this noise much since I started the thread, and posted the first sound track. One of those things you cannot detect at purchase as the test drive has the car warmed and running at the dealer.
I tried changing the oil at 6 months, twice, and no change. Probably just a waste of money. This time, at three years, I'll stick to an annual oil change; we only put about 7500 mi. a year on it anyway.
So I just 'close my ears' and write it off to just-the-way-it-is. Have to pick which battles to fight and honestly, as long as it's about the same, I just move on.

 

[Bob K]

At 58,000 miles, I think the VVT-area start-up rattle on my 2013 XLE has gotten slightly worse. I plan to record the noise and elevate it to Toyota Care. That amount of racket is, pure and simple, metal on metal rattle from a lack of oil pressure. Even if Toyota Care, like my dealer, ignores the problem, I at least want it recorded so that if the VVT valve lets go after the 60K warranty is up, I've got some ammunition to make Toyota fix it.

 

[katekebo]

There are two types of start-up rattle that occur in Toyota 2AR / 1AR engine family. One is "normal" ("normal" means "common", not "good"), the other is not normal and indicates a problem.

The first type is a 1 second start-up rattle caused by general "looseness" in the valve-train system before the oil reaches its normal pressure. It's not catastrophic and does not require an intervention. One can argue that it's not good for the engine longevity, but there really isn't much you (and the dealer) can do about it. Considering that the 2AR / 1AR engine family has been around for a while (since 2008) and in general has proven to be fairly reliable and durable, the best you can do is to just ignore it. Replacing VVT actuators may reduce the problem but it won't eliminate it completely and the rattle will come back.

The second type of rattle indicates a problem in the VVT system. The VVT actuators are designed to return to a "home" position when the engine is shut down and held in place with a pin until oil pressure has reached it's normal value and the VVT actuators can operate as designed. However, sometimes the locking pin gets stuck and does not hold the VVT actuator in the right position upon start-up. When this happens you can hear a loud rattle and the engine shakes violently because the valves are out of timing. The rattle and shaking usually stop after a second or two, but sometimes you have to turn the engine off and restart it.

The second type of rattle has been a common occurrence in other Toyota engines to the point that Toyota issues a TSB on the subject. The "cure" is to replace VVT actuators and is covered under 5 years / 60k miles powertrain warranty.

You can't miss the difference between the two types of rattle. The second (abnormal) rattle is VERY loud and the engine shakes violently - it really feels like the engine is going to break into pieces.

 

[RobertN]

Does using a heavier grade oil help reduce the startup rattle?

 

[Glideslope]

No, it does not. FWIW, our 2010 always had the "common" sound at start in the morning. It had close to 100,000 miles when we sold it. It was was not leaking, burning, or faltering in anyway.

Now our 2014 has a split personality. Some mornings you'll here a quick noise, other mornings none. I have no idea what this means. We used Toyota's 0w-20 in the 2010, and the current 2014.

I'm not concerned, and look forward to our 2018 RAV4. :wink

 

[Grumpy old man]

Well I took the car in for an overnight stay so that it could be cold started this morning ( Thursday ) As I suspected after doing some checking I was told that it was being caused by low oil pressure for a second or so on startup. I was also told that other vehicles with the same motor do it as well, they tried a couple more this morning. So nothing to worry about but at least it's on record in the very unlikely event of problems in the future but they haven't seen any in the past that were caused by this.

 

[WJBertrand]

The brief rattle that katekebo describes as the first type has been present to some degree in almost every vehicle I've owned. Our '11 Rav4 does it too. It's never been accompanied by any rough running though and maybe lasts less than a second. I've always considered this normal for most internal combustion engines.

 

[katekebo]

The brief rattle that katekebo describes as the first type has been present to some degree in almost every vehicle I've owned. Our '11 Rav4 does it too. It's never been accompanied by any rough running though and maybe lasts less than a second. I've always considered this normal for most internal combustion engines.

That's correct, although it is more noticeable in some engines than others. The only engine I had that was completely rattle-free (and was the smoothest, quietest, totally vibration-free and had the best torque curve from 1000 rpm to redline) was an in-line six BMW. This engine was, by far, the best engine I ever owned.

Toyota engines in general tend to be noisy, rattling and somewhat rough. They are reliable and durable, but they not particularly refined. And they are only middle-of-the-pack in terms of performance (torque/power per displacement and fuel economy). Toyota tends to be fairly conservative and usually stays one generation behind manufacturers that lead engine development (Mazda, Honda, Ford and the Europeans). The result is that Toyota engines are usually free of "growing pains" associated with introduction of new technologies, but have only average performance specs.

The 1AR / 2AR engines in the RAV4 and my current Venza are probably the most notorious offenders in terms of rattling, noise and vibration I ever owned. I had GM, Nissan, Ford, VW, BMW, Renault, Suzuki and Kawasaki (motorcycle) vehicles. I think all of them were generally "smoother" than current Toyota 4 cyl engines. The only engine that rattled even more than the Toyotas was the Kawasaki motorcycle engine, but this was a totally different animal, designed for performance, not comfort (with 13,000 rpm redline, lol). I found Nissan to be probably the most refined (and quietest) engines in the mainstream / budget category.

Every manufacturer follows somewhat different philosophy. Toyota is all about reliability and durability. Mazda, Honda and the Europeans are about class-leading performance. BMW, Mercedes are about "you can have it all" - performance AND quietness AND smoothness AND durability.

 

[NewRav2013]

Mine is 2014 and makes rattle noise at cold start or even when the engine is sat for half hour. Ive tried different type of oil in different climates frim 0 c to 45 c, didint change even in hotter weather it became worse. But the sound is not as bad as lexus rx

Same observation here. After it sits for about 20 minutes, it'll make the startup up rattle. Up to about 15 minutes it'll start up w/o noise.
The impact sound is unnerving but with a good synthetic oil film in the engine I'll just trust it will be ok.
Toyota gets all my oil change business for the 1 year service, and I do my own inspection and checkup/tire rotation at the 6 month interval, and record the results in the Toyota Owners site. This should keep any future problems in Toyota's ball park if this turns out to be a problem