2016 Rav4 Hybrid Updates

JohnC88 · Nov 24, 2015

volosong said:
Big Bear in the winter. You'll be glad you have AWD. If El Niño is as bad as they say, then you'll be thankful you have AWD. Think of it as 'insurance'.

Well, I am considering it if it doesn't exceed the msrp difference of $2K. I tend to keep my cars a long time and it could pay back in maybe 5 years. What really interests me is the added torque and HP. In its class, I think the gas model is the most gutless of them all. I'd really like the power boost so that's worth something to me.

As close as I am to Big Bear, there's no need for me to go up there when road conditions are bad.

So, I'd never pay the $1400 option to add AWD to any gas model.

JohnC88 · Nov 29, 2015

Just test drove an XLE hybrid. First hybrid I've ever driven. It does have more power off the line than the gas models I've driven, although by no means is it a speed demon. The test drive was short and they wouldn't let me take it on the freeway. I'll drive it again somewhere else. I think I would prefer it over the gas model depending upon the price. The wheels are different from the XLE gas model. I think I like the hybrid wheels better.

For those interested in the space lost to the battery it seemed like the seats angle up a lot more than I would have though, but of course that is subjective. It is a nice touch that the cargo floor can be easily lifted and engaged behind the laid down seats so that there is a smooth path all the way to the top of the seats, even if it doe rise to the top.

I've attached the sticker, the wheels and a pic of the back seat laying down.

internalaudit · Dec 4, 2015

[Canadian here] The Toyota Manager just called and I was told that our order for a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Limited with Technology Package will be coming from Japan, by sea of course.

Hopefully the car will be bullet proof. Definitely nothing against the Canadian manufacturing plant but it's been a long time since I got a MIJ vehicle.

I won't be here to pick the car up when it arrives on the 29th but will be heading over to the dealership to complete the paperwork around the 15th of January.

I did opt for the expensive block heater dealership installation but from my readings on Prius Chat, it will be paid off sooner on a Toyota hybrid vehicle because the engine, when close to operating temperature, can get to Stage 4 (whatever that is) sooner and turn itself off.

Condor · Dec 7, 2015

I've now test driven three 2016 Rav4 Limiteds, two of which were Hybrids and one with the Advanced Technology package.

My first impression of the Hybrid was the space taken up by the battery was much more noticeable than I had hoped. With the seats up the battery ledge extends about 6 inches behind the seats into the rear cargo area. The seats don't fold completely flat and have a very pronounced slant. The spare tire cover can be lifted and engaged with the battery ledge forming a flat cargo surface sloping upward towards the front seats. Compare this with the gas-only version which has a totally flat cargo area.

My guess is that when Toyota eventually replaces the NmH battery with the smaller LiON battery the ledge will disappear.

Other than that, I liked everything Toyota has done with the 2016 RAV4.

JohnC88 · Dec 7, 2015

Condor said:
I've now test driven three 2016 Rav4 Limiteds, two of which were Hybrids and one with the Advanced Technology package.

My first impression of the Hybrid was the space taken up by the battery was much more noticeable than I had hoped. With the seats up the battery ledge extends about 6 inches behind the seats into the rear cargo area. The seats don't fold completely flat and have a very pronounced slant. The spare tire cover can be lifted and engaged with the battery ledge forming a flat cargo surface sloping upward towards the front seats. Compare this with the gas-only version which has a totally flat cargo area.

My guess is that when Toyota eventually replaces the NmH battery with the smaller LiON battery the ledge will disappear.

Other than that, I liked everything Toyota has done with the 2016 RAV4.

I would agree there is a pronounced difference in the slant of the rear seats between the gas and hybrid models. But I refuse to call the gas model "flat". That said, I guess it really comes down to just what one intends to use the space for. I would imagine that for most folks it makes little to no difference.

I've attached a couple of photos I took of the last hybrid I drove. It was an XLE.

What was your impression of the AT package? Did you try any of the safety features like the rear sonar or blind spot monitoring?

internalaudit · Dec 8, 2015

JohnC88 said:
I would agree there is a pronounced difference in the slant of the rear seats between the gas and hybrid models. But I refuse to call the gas model "flat". That said, I guess it really comes down to just what one intends to use the space for. I would imagine that for most folks it makes little to no difference.

I've attached a couple of photos I took of the last hybrid I drove. It was an XLE.

What was your impression of the AT package? Did you try any of the safety features like the rear sonar or blind spot monitoring?

In terms of rear passenger seats, are they at least flat (parallel to the ground) on the hybrid? If the are slightly angled, hopefully they're just slightly higher at the knee than they are at the buttocks.

internalaudit · Dec 8, 2015

Wow, I didn't know those features can be added on to the XLE. So all the Toyota Safety Sense features can be ordered on the XLE? Too late for us now, we already ordered a Limited here in Canada and will take possession in mid-January. At least it's coming from Japan, haha.

Yeah, the birds eye view monitor is a gimmick, would have been better if it was engaged while the car is in motion, haha. As for the dynamic back up camera, maybe it will be helpful to a new driver (our daughter) but definitely not for us. I care very little for the 18" wheels as I even bought 16" winter tires/rims for better handling in snow/ice. Heated steering is god sent here in Canada though it is like a $170 option over at bmw so not that pricey. Memory seats are good as there will be two of us driving and maybe three next year (though I'm only to be relegated to the back next year

).

Technology Package
JBL Synthesis Audio System
11 Speakers in 7 Locations
Front & Rear Parking Assist Sonar
Bird’s Eye View Monitor
Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection
Auto High Beam
Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist

JohnC88 · Dec 8, 2015

internalaudit said:
In terms of rear passenger seats, are they at least flat (parallel to the ground) on the hybrid? If the are slightly angled, hopefully they're just slightly higher at the knee than they are at the buttocks.

If you're asking about being flat when sitting in them I'm afraid I didn't look at that or sit in them. I don't know if you can tell anything from the photo I posted above. My guess would be that for sitting purposes the only difference might be that the bench sits a little higher to accommodate the battery. That would explain the rise where the back cargo area meets where the seats fold down. I've added a photo of the step up in the back. Hope that helps.

Condor · Dec 8, 2015

JohnC88 said:
I would agree there is a pronounced difference in the slant of the rear seats between the gas and hybrid models. But I refuse to call the gas model "flat". That said, I guess it really comes down to just what one intends to use the space for. I would imagine that for most folks it makes little to no difference.

I've attached a couple of photos I took of the last hybrid I drove. It was an XLE.

What was your impression of the AT package? Did you try any of the safety features like the rear sonar or blind spot monitoring?

It seems to me that with all the attention to detail that Toyota gave to all other aspects of the new RAV4 Hybrid the "battery ledge" and the not-quite-fold-flat rear seats could have been done better. That's why I think that this is a temporary flaw that will disappear when the battery pack is upgraded to LiON. I'll bet the NmH battery only lasts one model year.

The battery ledge in the cargo area will affect how the carpet cargo mat or all-weather cargo tray fit into the cargo area. Will it be shaped to accomodate the battery ledge or will it be shaped to require the spare tire cover to always be raised to create a smooth surface? Since I don't see different accessories specifically for the hybrid I suspect it will be the latter.

By the way, great job with your photos! I agree that the difference in the cargo area may not matter to some folks but I noticed the difference right away. Although in the end I still prefer the Hybrid.

Regarding the Advanced Technology features. The Birds Eye View feature works well and looks like it will be useful for detecting foreign objects on the ground around the car such as toys, pets, etc. The button to activate it is located above the center display screen and is *very* small. However, at present the feature feels a bit gimicky. The standard dynamic backup camera seems more useful. The 11 speaker JBL soundsystem sounds very good compared with the 6 speaker soundsystem. You can tell if the AT package is present by looking for the camera under the Toyota emblem on the front grill and the camera blisters under each side-view mirror. Inside the car look for the Birds Eye button above the nav screen and the JBL emblem.

On one of my RAV4 Hybrid test drives I did about 20 minutes of highway driving and was able to check out several of the Toyota Safety Sense features. The Adaptive Radar Cruise Control works well and is pretty easy to set and adjust following distance. There are 3 settings for following distance that appear to be in about 50 feet increments. The Blind Spot Monitor indicators are on each side-view mirror and seemed to work pretty well from both sides. The Lane Departure Alert With Steering Assist works at speeds above 32mph and has visual and audible alerts. The visual alerts are shown on the 4-inch screen using a graphic of a highway lane with flashing lane markers to indicate alerts and also which side has detectable lane markings. The alert is cancelled when a turn signal is activated. The steering assist was my favorite feature just for the coolness of seeing the car steer itself. However, it is a *very* subtle assist that only occurs when you slowly drift out of your lane. And it is accompanyed by the Lane Departure alert as well as an alert to keep your hands on the steering wheel.

I wanted to test the pre-collision assist but I couldn't bring myself to take a chance!

I didn't try using the Eco or Sport modes. I did notice that there was a bit of a delay between when the throttle was depressed and when the power came up. This was most noticable when applying power to pass. Perhaps this would be changed by switching to Sport mode. Other than that I felt that there was a noticable increase in available power in the Hybrid over the gas model. All-in-all I thought it was very fun to drive.

One last observation. There was a greater range in driver seating adjustment with the power seat in the Limited over the manual seat in the XLE. If you are a very tall person you may prefer the Limited for that reason. I know I did. Also, the faux leather seating in the Limited is very nice.

The rear seat legroom seemed to be about the same in the Hybrid and gas model. However, the rear seat in the Hybrid felt slightly higher. This is probably what causes the tilt when the rear seatback is folded down.

Question: Do you have any idea why remote start is an option on the gas model and not the Hybrid?

JohnC88 · Dec 8, 2015

Condor said:
I seems to me that with all the attention to detail that Toyota gave to all other aspects of the new RAV4 Hybrid the "battery ledge" and the not-quite-fold-flat rear seats could have been done better. That's why I think that this is a temporary flaw that will disappear when the battery pack is upgraded to LiON. I'll bet the NmH battery only lasts one model year.

The battery ledge in the cargo area will affect how the carpet cargo mat or all-weather cargo tray fit into the cargo area. Will it be shaped to accomodate the battery ledge or will it be shaped to require the spare tire cover to always be raised to create a smooth surface? Since I don't see different accessories specifically for the hybrid I suspect it will be the latter.

By the way, great job with your photos! I agree that the difference in the cargo area may not matter to some folks but I noticed the difference right away. Although in the end I still prefer the Hybrid.

Regarding the Advanced Technology features. The Birds Eye View feature works well and looks like it will be useful for detecting foreign objects on the ground around the car such as toys, pets, etc. The button to activate it is located above the center display screen and is *very* small. However, at present the feature feels a bit gimicky. The standard dynamic backup camera seems more useful. The 11 speaker JBL soundsystem sounds very good compared with the 6 speaker soundsystem. You can tell if the AT package is present by looking for the camera under the Toyota emblem on the front grill and the camera blisters under each side-view mirror. Inside the car look for the Birds Eye button above the nav screen and the JBL emblem.

On one of my RAV4 Hybrid test drives I did about 20 minutes of highway driving and was able to check out several of the Toyota Safety Sense features. The Adaptive Radar Cruise Control works well and is pretty easy to set and adjust following distance. There are 3 settings for following distance that appear to be in about 50 feet increments. The Blind Spot Monitor indicators are on each side-view mirror and seemed to work pretty well from both sides. The Lane Departure Alert With Steering Assist works at speeds above 32mph and has visual and audible alerts. The visual alerts are shown on the 4-inch screen using a graphic of a highway lane with flashing lane markers to indicate alerts and also which side has detectable lane markings. The alert is cancelled when a turn signal is activated. The steering assist was my favorite feature just for the coolness of seeing the car steer itself. However, it is a *very* subtle assist that only occurs when you slowly drift out of your lane. And it is accompanyed by the Lane Departure alert as well as an alert to keep your hands on the steering wheel.

I wanted to test the pre-collision assist but I couldn't bring myself to take a chance!

I didn't try using the Eco or Sport modes. I did notice that there was a bit of a delay between when the throttle was depressed and when the power came up. This was most noticable when applying power to pass. Perhaps this would be changed by switching to Sport mode. Other than that I felt that there was a noticable increase in available power in the Hybrid over the gas model. All-in-all I thought it was very fun to drive.

One last observation. There was a greater range in driver seating adjustment with the power seat in the Limited over the manual seat in the XLE. If you are a very tall person you may prefer the Limited for that reason. I know I did. Also, the faux leather seating in the Limited is very nice.

The rear seat legroom seemed to be about the same in the Hybrid and gas model. However, the rear seat in the Hybrid felt slightly higher. This is probably what causes the tilt when the rear seatback is folded down.

Question: Do you have any idea why remote start is an option on the gas model and not the Hybrid?

Thanks for all the feedback. Great job.

I've been leaning towards the hybrid myself based on what I have read and speaking with a friend who previously owned a Prius. But it is a big change for me as I've previously viewed them as overpriced and under-powered political statements. I was surprised to see and then confirm that the hybrid really does have better power/torque than the gas model. That' is important to me because I think the gas model borders on gutless when trying to accelerate on to a freeway. I like that Toyota has an almost 20 year history with the hybrid and has an outstanding track record of being quite reliable. Although I don't quite understand their CVT, I like that it works more like planetary gears and not two pulleys and a rubber band that is found in other manufacturers cars that use gas engines. Assuming the sales prices do not exceed the $2100 msrp difference (gas model 2WD vs hybrid AWD) I would expect it to pay back somewhere around 5 years. Given the better performace I'd be willing to do that.

The carpet cargo mat was on the photo I posted. It does stop at the ledge. You do have to lift the "floor" to make the smooth connection. However, as long as there is nothing on it, it is very light and easy to do. I didn't try raising it with the seats upright but if it fits that way, it may be best to just raise it and leave it with the slight tilt.

Personally the Limited is just more than I want to spend so I'm only looking at the XLE. I'd like the power seat and Homelink, but not for all that price. Everything safety related except for the birds eye view is available on a $2,070 package. Other than the otherwise $525 nav upgrade that I do want and is included in that package, I'm not so sure about all those other "safety" features. Do you know how the rear sonar works? Does it beep every time a car pulls up behind you at a light? That would be annoying.

As for the remote start, I'll just guess it has to do with the fact that the hybrid doesn't use a conventional starter and only initially powers up the electric motor. I don't think you could "warm up" a hybrid since they don't idle.

Condor · Dec 8, 2015

JohnC88 said:
Thanks for all the feedback. Great job.

I've been leaning towards the hybrid myself based on what I have read and speaking with a friend who previously owned a Prius. But it is a big change for me as I've previously viewed them as overpriced and under-powered political statements. I was surprised to see and then confirm that the hybrid really does have better power/torque than the gas model. That' is important to me because I think the gas model borders on gutless when trying to accelerate on to a freeway. I like that Toyota has an almost 20 year history with the hybrid and has an outstanding track record of being quite reliable. Although I don't quite understand their CVT, I like that it works more like planetary gears and not two pulleys and a rubber band that is found in other manufacturers cars that use gas engines. Assuming the sales prices do not exceed the $2100 msrp difference (gas model 2WD vs hybrid AWD) I would expect it to pay back somewhere around 5 years. Given the better performace I'd be willing to do that.

The carpet cargo mat was on the photo I posted. It does stop at the ledge. You do have to lift the "floor" to make the smooth connection. However, as long as there is nothing on it, it is very light and easy to do. I didn't try raising it with the seats upright but if it fits that way, it may be best to just raise it and leave it with the slight tilt.

Personally the Limited is just more than I want to spend so I'm only looking at the XLE. I'd like the power seat and Homelink, but not for all that price. Everything safety related except for the birds eye view is available on a $2,070 package. Other than the otherwise $525 nav upgrade that I do want and is included in that package, I'm not so sure about all those other "safety" features. Do you know how the rear sonar works? Does it beep every time a car pulls up behind you at a light? That would be annoying.

As for the remote start, I'll just guess it has to do with the fact that the hybrid doesn't use a conventional starter and only initially powers up the electric motor. I don't think you could "warm up" a hybrid since they don't idle.

I did not test the Parking Assist Sonar or Pedestrian Detection features. From what I've read about them they only produce alerts when the vehicle is in reverse. I may make another test drive and if I do I'll confirm this.

I did look at an XLE but I didn't drive it. I'm a bit of a gadget hound so I'll probably opt for a Hybrid Limited with AT package and a few port-installed acessories. My guess is that it will come in around 36K before taxes. I've already been offered $500 off MSRP for a vehicle close to what I'm looking for. Because the Hybrid is new and probably will be in-demand I don't think I'll do much better than that but I'll certainly try. There are several Toyota dealerships located near me but none has received more than one Hybrid so far. All within the last week and none have sold yet. I don't expect that they will last long.

Thanks for the update on the carpet cargo mat. If you ever get an opportunity to see the all-weather cargo tray installed I'd love to see a photo.

Ecmacdonald · Dec 8, 2015

Interesting about the seat height adjustment. I test drove a gas XLE and felt like I couldn't put the seat up high enough. (I'm pretty short.) I'm wondering if the power seats will be different in Limited. I don't remember that problem when I tested a 2015 Limited.

JohnC88 · Dec 8, 2015

Condor said:
I did not test the Parking Assist Sonar or Pedestrian Detection features. From what I've read about them they only produce alerts when the vehicle is in reverse. I may make another test drive and if I do I'll confirm this.

I did look at an XLE but I didn't drive it. I'm a bit of a gadget hound so I'll probably opt for a Hybrid Limited with AT package and a few port-installed acessories. My guess is that it will come in around 36K before taxes. I've already been offered $500 off MSRP for a vehicle close to what I'm looking for. Because the Hybrid is new and probably will be in-demand I don't think I'll do much better than that but I'll certainly try. There are several Toyota dealerships located near me but none has received more than one Hybrid so far. All within the last week and none have sold yet. I don't expect that they will last long.

Thanks for the update on the carpet cargo mat. If you ever get an opportunity to see the all-weather cargo tray installed I'd love to see a photo.

I've been watching inventory online a lot. I live in SoCal where we have a lot of dealers and cars. But it does look like everybody is getting one before anybody starts getting more of the hybrids. One dealer does actually show his hybrid at almost $1000 under msrp.

FWIW, Trucar shows the gas model XLE available in my area at $1900 below msrp.

There's about 35 within 50 miles of me. They aren't flying off the lots. Many have been there for 3-4 weeks now. I'm willing to bet they will sell at the same discount from msrp as the gas model. The hybrid Camrys around here are doing just that and they are a popular car. I think the current price of gas and the fact that the Rav still only gets 34/31/33 will mean that there won't be any excessive demand for them. But I do believe we need to see dealers with more than one on the lot in order to see some better pricing. In the perfect world, I'd love to try and buy one between Christmas and New Years.

Condor · Dec 8, 2015

JohnC88 said:
I've been watching inventory online a lot. I live in SoCal where we have a lot of dealers and cars. But it does look like everybody is getting one before anybody starts getting more of the hybrids. One dealer does actually show his hybrid at almost $1000 under msrp.

FWIW, Trucar shows the gas model XLE available in my area at $1900 below msrp.

There's about 35 within 50 miles of me. They aren't flying off the lots. Many have been there for 3-4 weeks now. I'm willing to bet they will sell at the same discount from msrp as the gas model. The hybrid Camrys around here are doing just that and they are a popular car. I think the current price of gas and the fact that the Rav still only gets 34/31/33 will mean that there won't be any excessive demand for them. But I do believe we need to see dealers with more than one on the lot in order to see some better pricing. In the perfect world, I'd love to try and buy one between Christmas and New Years.

I live in the New York city area. Some dealerships around here don't have any Hybrids yet and the ones that do all received them in the last few days. The local dealships have their sales staffs attending their Toyota training as we speak.

The website thecarconnection.com shows the invoice price of the Hybrid Limited as $31,593 and MSRP of $33,610. The Hybrid XLE shows an invoice of $26,667 and MSRP of $28,370. If these figures are accurate then the markup on the Hybrid Limited is $2,017 and $1,703 on the Hybrid XLE. The AT package shows an invoice of $1,277 and MSRP of $1,435. They don't show any prices for accessories.

If the markups for the gas models are similar then the Trucar quote you saw is pretty close to invoice and would be a great deal. As it stands, $1,000 off MSRP for a Hybrid would probably be a good deal as well.

This is good news for those of us looking to negotiate a good price!

From what I've been told, lead time for a special order is about 8 weeks or higher. If I were to order one today I'd probably be looking at February at best.

Hopefully you'll find your perfect Christmas present on the lot.

JohnC88 · Dec 8, 2015

Condor said:
I live in the New York city area. Some dealerships around here don't have any Hybrids yet and the ones that do all received them in the last few days. The local dealships have their sales staffs attending their Toyota training as we speak.

The website thecarconnection.com shows the invoice price of the Hybrid Limited as $31,593 and MSRP of $33,610. The Hybrid XLE shows an invoice of $26,667 and MSRP of $28,370. If these figures are accurate then the markup on the Hybrid Limited is $2,017 and $1,703 on the Hybrid XLE. The AT package shows an invoice of $1,277 and MSRP of $1,435. They don't show any prices for accessories.

If the markups for the gas models are similar then the Trucar quote you saw is pretty close to invoice and would be a great deal. As it stands, $1,000 off MSRP for a Hybrid would probably be a good deal as well.

This is good news for those of us looking to negotiate a good price!

From what I've been told, lead time for a special order is about 8 weeks or higher. If I were to order one today I'd probably be looking at February at best.

Hopefully you'll find your perfect Christmas present on the lot.

I'm looking for $2K or better. ;-) Don't forget you need to add $900 delivery plus options to those prices.

I only mentioned the end of the year because I figure the dealers will be trying to move as many cars as possible and it's not the best time of year for them. But I'm willing to wait a bit if that's not the case. I'm not a 16 year old, buying my first car anymore. It's a tool. It meets a need. I shop for the right tool at the right price.

Since they are currently all coming from Japan it would make sense that they got to the left coast sooner than the right. But hopefully now that the east coast is getting them, there will be more showing up at all the local dealerships, allowing for some competitive pricing.

turbotom · Dec 9, 2015

I was offered $600 off MSRP without asking yesterday in CT on a XLE Hybrid. They would not move from that but did go higher on my trade in, up $1000 from the first offer. I was happy with my trade in offer but I wanted more off MSRP so I did not buy. I too hope to get a better deal as more Hybrids show up. The one I test drove was Silver and very nice but I have owned to many Silver cars and want something diff. I told them White or Black. They kept telling me how nice the black is no matter how many times I told them I was leaning towards white. At the end I found out why when they told me they have 2 black Hybrids coming in this month. So with any luck more will show up sooner then later. I like the point above about the fact that gas prices are down right now and these hybrids might not fly off the lot. I also noticed from looking on Autotrader it seems a lot of dealers are offering the gas only XLE for 2k under MSRP. That is not helping the Hybrid make sense. I really hope as more Hybrids show up we start to see prices closer to invoice like the gas only models are today.

46flatlander · Dec 9, 2015

36 MPG driving new Hybrid home last night! 43 total miles

internalaudit · Dec 9, 2015

46flatlander said:
36 MPG driving new Hybrid home last night! 43 total miles

Thanks for sharing how easily you beat the 35/31/32 numbers. Was this 50/50 highway/city driving?

I was thinking that the city driving rating of 35 MPG is severely underestimated because in simulations, the brakes probably get stepped on less frequently (so less opportunities for battery regeneration through light braking) and there are likely less full stops (when gasoline engine complete shuts off).

JohnC88 · Dec 9, 2015

I believe the EPA mileage for the hybrid is 34/31/33. The average being based on a 45 highway, 55 city split. In any case, I wouldn't take a 43 mile trip as an adequate sample size. How people drive also has a huge impact on the mileage one can expect to get.

internalaudit · Dec 9, 2015

JohnC88 said:
I believe the EPA mileage for the hybrid is 34/31/33. The average being based on a 45 highway, 55 city split. In any case, I wouldn't take a 43 mile trip as an adequate sample size. How people drive also has a huge impact on the mileage one can expect to get.

True. I forgot that number came from the instrument panel and not right during fueling up after having depleted a full tank.

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