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Rear tow arm: third time the charm

23K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  84hachi  
#1 ·
I'm the third owner of a 2007 Limited V6 AWD, and I love this car. It spent its first 10 years with Ohio and Colorado owners, so I caved in and had the rear control arms epoxied under the recall. In hindsight, that's where I should have stopped and left well enough alone.

But I wanted adjustability, so I bought replacement arms made by a company called SPC. Installed them myself and had an alignment done, which was within specs except for -1.9 on camber for both wheels (-1.8 is the outer limit of spec). I was OK with that. But I was not OK with the clunking sounds I began to hear when making turns. Mostly they were 90 degree turns with a change in road elevation, either up or down, like backing out of the driveway or pulling into parking lots. This noise never happened before the new arms.

I looked around under the car and found the ball joint end was contacting what I think is the rear trailing arm under these conditions. Both sides. It was clear that the dimesnions of the SPC part were different from OEM in some areas. I tried to live with it a while, but I knew something wasn't right.

So I ordered another set of arms from rockauto, this time from Beck Arnley. Before installation I compared them carefully to the OEM arms, and they were identical in the key respects. Put them on, got an alignment, and the car was back in spec except still slightly out in negative camber.

You can see the difference between the SPC arm and the OEM arm. The key aspect in all this, I think, is the extra length of the tapered spindle on the SPC arm. The SPC arm never seated fully into the hole because of this extra length. It was torqued to spec, but the ball end was too far back from the mounting surface. You can see how the taper would seat farther out than the OEM one. This resulted in too much play in the ball joint and clunking.

So I learned a couple of things for the umpteenth time: always compare the dimensions of a new part with the old one/OEM. And it's often best to leave well enough alone.

I've enjoyed this forum and learned so much valuable info here. I hope my experience will save a fellow Rav owner from repeating my frustration.

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#3 ·
I'm not aware of any lower control arm that gives camber adjustment. I looked at pics of that Moog lower control arm, and it looks just like the SPC witih a long spindle. The SPC didn't have a castle nut, but it did have a cotter pin retainer. The Moog is also wide like the SPC under the ball joint. I would be wary of it.
 
#5 ·
The Beck Arnleys arms are not out of spec. If you mean how much my camber is out, it is at - 1.9 on both sides. My car now handles as it did when I bought it, with no steering problems and no more clunks.



From what I have read here, it's not uncommon for camber on our vehicles to settle in an increasingly negative direction. The issue with my camber might be the alignment shop I'm using, or it might be a question of aging bushings and corresponding looseness. I watched the guy do my alignment, and once he had toe in the middle range of spec, there was no further effect on camber. YMMV.
 
#6 ·
The Beck Arnleys arms are not out of spec. If you mean how much my camber is out, it is at - 1.9 on both sides. My car now handles as it did when I bought it, with no steering problems and no more clunks.



From what I have read here, it's not uncommon for camber on our vehicles to settle in an increasingly negative direction. The issue with my camber might be the alignment shop I'm using, or it might be a question of aging bushings and corresponding looseness. I watched the guy do my alignment, and once he had toe in the middle range of spec, there was no further effect on camber. YMMV.

Thanks for the answer because there does not appear to be many members giving updates when they replace the lower control arm. The Toyota lower control arm here is $378/pair in Canada so it is good to know what other inexpensive aftermarket parts can be used instead.


I see Febest makes one that looks exactly like the Beck and Arnley cheaper.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I bought these for $72 for two when I replaced my rear subframe. Only used one since the other epoxied one was close enough. It fit and adjusted just fine.
 
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#9 ·
I'm the third owner of a 2007 Limited V6 AWD, and I love this car. It spent its first 10 years with Ohio and Colorado owners, so I caved in and had the rear control arms epoxied under the recall. In hindsight, that's where I should have stopped and left well enough alone.

But I wanted adjustability, so I bought replacement arms made by a company called SPC. Installed them myself and had an alignment done, which was within specs except for -1.9 on camber for both wheels (-1.8 is the outer limit of spec). I was OK with that. But I was not OK with the clunking sounds I began to hear when making turns. Mostly they were 90 degree turns with a change in road elevation, either up or down, like backing out of the driveway or pulling into parking lots. This noise never happened before the new arms.

I looked around under the car and found the ball joint end was contacting what I think is the rear trailing arm under these conditions. Both sides. It was clear that the dimesnions of the SPC part were different from OEM in some areas. I tried to live with it a while, but I knew something wasn't right.

So I ordered another set of arms from rockauto, this time from Beck Arnley. Before installation I compared them carefully to the OEM arms, and they were identical in the key respects. Put them on, got an alignment, and the car was back in spec except still slightly out in negative camber.

You can see the difference between the SPC arm and the OEM arm. The key aspect in all this, I think, is the extra length of the tapered spindle on the SPC arm. The SPC arm never seated fully into the hole because of this extra length. It was torqued to spec, but the ball end was too far back from the mounting surface. You can see how the taper would seat farther out than the OEM one. This resulted in too much play in the ball joint and clunking.

So I learned a couple of things for the umpteenth time: always compare the dimensions of a new part with the old one/OEM. And it's often best to leave well enough alone.

I've enjoyed this forum and learned so much valuable info here. I hope my experience will save a fellow Rav owner from repeating my frustration.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the SPC part.

Can I ask what the part # is for the SPC you installed?

It looks like SPC recently revised the design - so I am wondering if you had the new or the old version.
 
#10 ·
A little more on this topic. The lower link that the OP swapped out should be called the Toe adjustment link/arm and NOT the lower control arm (LCA). HEre is a simplified graphic of the multi link rear suspension.
The Part #10 is the LCA, and #8 the link in question.
Image


in 2012 the toe adjustment link went to a cam styled one instead of the problematic turnbuckle (tube type). One can not easily convert to the cam style as it requires a slotted hole as well as additional tabs for the cams eccentric washer to push against.
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The toe link has no effect on the camber value. Camber on our cars is not adjustable in stock form. My camber is -1.8 on one side. This results in a inner tire wear. To combat this I have my rear toe dialed "IN". As a result my entire tire wears faster but at least it is even. To adjust the camber you need am upper control arm (link #9 in the top diagram) or LCA that can be variable length. THere are 2 design options through rockauto. Not cheap $80 being the cheapest.
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Generally neg camber is a result of wear. Either compacted bushing rubbers or sagging coils. These should be addressed before you start adding adjustable links. However I first started noticing extreme neg camber (greater than -1 degree) at about 50K on this car. My bushing and ride height both look good. I will attempt to address this in the summer.
 
#27 · (Edited)
A little more on this topic. The lower link that the OP swapped out should be called the Toe adjustment link/arm and NOT the lower control arm (LCA). HEre is a simplified graphic of the multi link rear suspension.
The Part #10 is the LCA, and #8 the link in question.
Image


in 2012 the toe adjustment link went to a cam styled one instead of the problematic turnbuckle (tube type). One can not easily convert to the cam style as it requires a slotted hole as well as additional tabs for the cams eccentric washer to push against.
Image


The toe link has no effect on the camber value. Camber on our cars is not adjustable in stock form. My camber is -1.8 on one side. This results in a inner tire wear. To combat this I have my rear toe dialed "IN". As a result my entire tire wears faster but at least it is even. To adjust the camber you need am upper control arm (link #9 in the top diagram) or LCA that can be variable length. THere are 2 design options through rockauto. Not cheap $80 being the cheapest.
Image

Image


Generally neg camber is a result of wear. Either compacted bushing rubbers or sagging coils. These should be addressed before you start adding adjustable links. However I first started noticing extreme neg camber (greater than -1 degree) at about 50K on this car. My bushing and ride height both look good. I will attempt to address this in the summer.
Did you ever manage to find out the cause of your negative camber? I’m curious as I just installed rear springs from the 3-row model and now have a negative situation on both rear wheels. I’m curious too about there being no way to adjust rear camber - if that’s the case, I’m going to cancel my alignment appointment for Wednesday.

Bump to anyone else... looks like MrPulldown hasn’t been online since March 16. Too bad, he was usually REALLY quick about his replies.

Anyone know the answer to my question above?
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey All,

I'm so glad I found this thread. I have a 2012 4cyl 4WD with 54k on it. I'm having tire vibration issues after purchasing new tires (falken ziex950 all seasons in 225/65/17). I cheaped out and went to Walmart for them, which has proven to be a mistake. They have tried to rebalance the tires 4 times now, but haven't been able to get the vibration to go away. I get a slight wobble at 25-35mph and then a steady vibration at 60-70mph. I decided to get an alignment check to see if that was the issue. Everything was good, except the rear passenger toe being just a bit out (the guy said it's not bad. I think it was .29 but they wouldn't let me have the paper because I didn't have to pay for the check.). When i said to go ahead and align it, he came in and said he could not loosen that passenger link because it was seized. He recommended the SPC part mentioned previously to fix this issue. With it being out of alignment just a bit, would you guys worry about it? Should I try to loosen that bolt on my own? He was worried about it breaking and leaving me stranded for the holidays. Can I just replace those bolts if broken, or would I need a new arm anyhow?

Also, Walmart is now claiming that my steel 17in wheel is bent, causing the vibration. Easy fix I thought: switch it out for the matching spare. The vibration persists. What's the chances that I hit something hard enough to bend 2+ wheels without remembering? I find that hard to believe. Any ideas on what else to pursue with this vibration? I'll try searching for anything else on the forum, but all help is appreciated.

BTW, Walmart and Walmart.com are different entities, and it looks like even if I find the tires defective, I'm stuck with them. Walmart won't help because they aren't a brand they stock. Walmart.com cant return used tires. Falken's warranty says that you have the 1st 1/32" to identify manufacturer defects, which I am probably past now thanks to Walmart's insistence on rebalancing the tires.

I have also found it very hard to find good tires in this size. Any recommendations on tires I should try? I live in the northeast, so I have snow to deal with. That's why I went with these. They seemed to be the best compromise that I could afford ATM.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
 
#14 ·
I highly doubt the rear toe is affecting anything.
It may be too late but I reject new tires that need heavy weights to balance them.
Short of having your own balancer like I do now all you might do is watch them run at slow speed on a balancer and look for a bent rim or out of round tire.
 
#15 ·
I did see a wobble at 25mph on my wheel on the balancer, but I honestly question whether or not they didn't have it seated properly. I am so disappointed in walmart that I will not let them touch my car ever again. After switching to my matching spare though, there is still a vibration. How unlucky would I have to be to bend at least 2 steel wheels and not remember bracing for impact?
 
#16 ·
I did see a wobble at 25mph on my wheel on the balancer, but I honestly question whether or not they didn't have it seated properly. I am so disappointed in walmart that I will not let them touch my car ever again.
I have been disappointed too. Last time I needed tires I went to Discount Tire. I recommend them highly.
 
#17 ·
Bumping the thread a little. I just installed the febest toe arms. I will post a video soon, but they are only $32 a piece. However, the OEM toe arms were recalled due to rust. I took one of the febest arms out of the packaging and let it set outside overnight in the Humid Alabama weather. The toe arm I left inside was fine, but the one I left outdoors had some rust on the turnbuckle threads. To fix this I coated everything in rust inhibitor and let it cure. I then took the arms apart and packed the turnbuckle with lithium grease that is fused with anti-seize. Then I reassembled the arms, which was difficult as the excess grease makes it’s way out of the turnbuckle at each end. I will be reinspecting these next year for rust, but my theory is that the grease will prevent oxygen from getting to the surface of the metal, and the rust inhibitor will be there if the grease should fail.
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#18 ·
Just to circle back - after regretfully having my dealer perform the recall work, I later learned that my rear was out of alignment. The dealer quoted me $1100 to remove the rear lower control arms (AKA 'lateral link' or 'rear lower suspension arms) and the crappy epoxy fix, then install new control arms and AGAIN apply the ridiculous epoxy "fix" that disables the ability to perform a rear alignment.

Yesterday I instead went to an independent shop and had them replace both arms/lateral links with this part and then perform a front and rear alignment.

MEVOTECH CMS861233

The parts installed without issue, and the total cost (including alignment) was around $400 ($150 for the parts, $250 for labor including alignment and a couple of other minor things I had adjusted). It was more than I wanted to spend, but I love this car and it gives me peace of mind as I plan to drive this car for another 50-100k miles.

The mechanic said the quality of the Mevotech parts looked good and has brass in areas where the OEM part is apparently prone to rust.
 
#19 ·
So this is how I installed the adjustable toe arms. I don't forsee any issues, but I don't live near the ocean or in a place where road salt is encountered. I will post and update 1 year from now to judge the viability of the repair.

 
#20 ·
Well, the aftermarket toe arms I had installed (MEVOTECH CMS861233) are already failing on the passenger side. Extremely disappointing. I purchased them from Rock Auto and it looks like they came out of completely different factories. One of them is even stamped 'TRQ' - which makes no sense. Perhaps Rock Auto substituted a part?

See the photo below - this is how one of them looks after just 5k miles. Rusted and the rubber is cracked. It looks like it's been on there for years. Do not buy. My mechanic said he is no longer installing Mevotech parts as he has experienced a few failures over the last 6 months - particularly seeing the rubber break down, and lousy metallurgy.

I also noticed that every parts vendor is now out of stock of the Mevotech part, as is Mevotech, with no date for a future batch - which makes me think they have quietly discontinued the part due to problems.

I am going to replace them with Specialty Products #SPC 67806

146741
 
#29 ·
Just putting it out there that Megan Racing has put out an updated version of both their rear camber and toe arms for the 3rd/4th gen RAV4. The main difference between V1 and V2 is V2 has poly bushings.
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