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I intentionally ran out of gas in my 2025 Rav4 PHEV

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PetitFrereRav4

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Some people have done this test..This is my own personal experience. YMMV.

2025 Toyota Rav4 XSE Plug-in Hybrid.

This happened today on a trip from Montrose, CO to Colorado Springs, CO. I drove straight. No stop. From my hotel and stopped at the end at Costco in Colorado Springs for gas.

Image

I intentionally ran out of gas today to get some stats. My car was set in ECO mode and HV mode. No use of ac at all. This is a trip from Montrose, CO to Colorado Springs. I started with 49 EV miles. DTE 107 miles.

My DTE turned to ZERO or "Refuel" @ 134.6 miles on this trip

DTE = 0 with 29 EV miles left.
Image


I ran out of gas 97 miles past zero. The engine stopped and this message popped up. The car went into EV mode, but you can still see HV active, though it stayed in EV mode now throughout because I had ran out of gas. But I was close to my destination at this point.

I had driven for 97 miles past ZERO or "Refuel" before I ran out of gas. I was on the highway and highest speed limit was 65 mph, but I was doing 50 mph to 55 mph. I was hypermiling.
Image


I got to Costco after driving for 8 miles on EV.
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I filled up and the tank took 14.3 gallons. I did not overfill. I stopped at first click. I am sure I could have forced 0.2 gallon inside, but I didn't.
Image


I got back into my car and started the engine. I switched to HV. The car started normally. No sputtering or any warning lights.

I continued on my journey.
Image
 
#3 ·
I can appreciate that it didn't throw a DTC that had to be cleared before you could take off again. I keep a cheap OBD2 scanner/clearer in my hybrid as a just in case tool but I really like that you could just fill and go. Good test.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
tom1977 said:
14.3 gallons of fuel after driving 231 miles? What am I missing here. (I just want to understand as I don’t own a hybrid)
Click to expand...
When I left my hotel this morning, I did not have a full tank of gas nor a full electric charge.

My DTE showed 107 miles left for my gas tank to be empty or turn to zero or say refuel.

My EV miles showed 49 EV miles available.

I did not use ac at all for the whole trip.

I started my trip by driving only in EV mode until my EV miles was at 25 left. Then I switched to HV mode for the rest of the trip.

Along the way I had some sections of going up very steep hills and I had one section of 7 miles of downhill. I think I got my EV miles up to 39 EV miles at that section. Then it would deplete itself sometime along the way back to about 25 EV miles.

I hope this helps answer your question.
 
#9 ·
Soooo
When it stopped the engine for low to no fuel
It continued without any surging right?

My question is did it stop calling for the gas engine as a preset condition
Or a tank level or low fuel pressure?

What software sense and conditions stops the call for restarting the engine?

I would love to see the flow chart on the software on this
 
#10 ·
PetitFrereRav4 said:
I intentionally ran out of gas today to get some stats.
I ran out of gas 97 miles past zero.
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing this test. It validates how I like to think about "miles to empty" when looking at the fuel gauge -- and ignoring the car's displayed DTE number. Very comforting to know there's 100 miles of buffer in that gas tank. I just have to remember to reset the odometer when it hits "E" so I can keep track.

Image
 
#12 ·
CoffeeBear said:
how so? I've never tested this out.
Click to expand...
I believe that when you run out of fuel in a R4H it will result in you needing to manually reset some scary codes before you can use it again. Whereas the ICE in the R4P seems to spring back into action as soon as you refill the tnak.
 
#13 ·
#15 ·
Yeah, it happens to me too. I do not understand this. Why the car charges in HV driving downhill but then discharges in HV. It makes no sense at all.

Along the way I had some sections of going up very steep hills and I had one section of 7 miles of downhill. I think I got my EV miles up to 39 EV miles at that section. Then it would deplete itself sometime along the way back to about 25 EV miles.

I hope this helps answer your question.
[/QUOTE]
 
#16 ·
I can confirm at least 90 miles past DTE 0 on my R4P.
As a test, I have run 90 miles past DTE 0 a couple of times but chickened out going any farther than that before filling up. I never reach the engine shutdown/no fuel error condition.
There seems to be plenty of range left after DTE 0 that can be safely relied upon.
 
#17 ·
eugenepowers001 said:
Yeah, it happens to me too. I do not understand this. Why the car charges in HV driving downhill but then discharges in HV. It makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...
The stated purpose of HV is to maintain the EV miles when HV was started. Thus if EV is started at 25 miles, it will attempt to maintain 25 miles. If you would rather have it maintain the higher miles from the downhill section, switch to EV for the downhill, then back to HV at the end of the hill. Then it will attempt to maintain the EV miles recovered from the downhill. Note that it will always use EV miles slowly if the battery is more than 80% charged.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I don't know if this sounds correct or not but this is what I got yesterday. My DTE had 1 mile left. I went and got gas. All I could get into the car was 12.9 gallons. I do not overfill. I stop at the first click of the gas punp to stop putting gas in the car.

Say the gas tank is 14.5 gallons. 14.5 - 12.9 = 1.6 gallons. Does this mean we have only 1.6 gallons when DTE turns to zero? Does tjis mean I drove for 97 miles fr ok m only 1.6 gallons of gas left before I ran out of gas? Here are pictures.
Image

Image

Image
 
#19 ·
PetitFrereRav4 said:
Some people have done this test..This is my own personal experience. YMMV.

2025 Toyota Rav4 XSE Plug-in Hybrid.

This happened today on a trip from Montrose, CO to Colorado Springs, CO. I drove straight. No stop. From my hotel and stopped at the end at Costco in Colorado Springs for gas.

View attachment 219986
I intentionally ran out of gas today to get some stats. My car was set in ECO mode and HV mode. No use of ac at all. This is a trip from Montrose, CO to Colorado Springs. I started with 49 EV miles. DTE 107 miles.

My DTE turned to ZERO or "Refuel" @ 134.6 miles on this trip

DTE = 0 with 29 EV miles left.
View attachment 219988

I ran out of gas 97 miles past zero. The engine stopped and this message popped up. The car went into EV mode, but you can still see HV active, though it stayed in EV mode now throughout because I had ran out of gas. But I was close to my destination at this point.

I had driven for 97 miles past ZERO or "Refuel" before I ran out of gas. I was on the highway and highest speed limit was 65 mph, but I was doing 50 mph to 55 mph. I was hypermiling.
View attachment 219989

I got to Costco after driving for 8 miles on EV.
View attachment 219991


I filled up and the tank took 14.3 gallons. I did not overfill. I stopped at first click. I am sure I could have forced 0.2 gallon inside, but I didn't.
View attachment 219992

I got back into my car and started the engine. I switched to HV. The car started normally. No sputtering or any warning lights.

I continued on my journey.
View attachment 219993
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the fuel pump is cooled with fuel in your tank. In my mind that is similar to draining antifreeze till the temperature gauge gets to hot while the ICE is running. I once heard a saying that goes like this - "If you dance with the devil sooner or later you get burned". A word to the wise should be sufficient.
 
#20 ·
wscan said:
The stated purpose of HV is to maintain the EV miles when HV was started. Thus if EV is started at 25 miles, it will attempt to maintain 25 miles. If you would rather have it maintain the higher miles from the downhill section, switch to EV for the downhill, then back to HV at the end of the hill. Then it will attempt to maintain the EV miles recovered from the downhill. Note that it will always use EV miles slowly if the battery is more than 80% charged.
Click to expand...
But why? The whole idea of regen is to gain and save the range. And where does this range go while in the HV mode?
 
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