[RedOldRav]

It kind of pretty strong kick when the fluid is cold and turn to weak as the it's get's hot.
the fluid need to be replaced anyway, but speaking with several automatic transmission specialist
i got same answer that it a slim chance that flushing or changing fluid will do any good.
it's A540H.
http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/11-01-10_a540h_eng.htm

http://etereman.com/blog/toyota-tra...ission-2/keep-an-eye-open-for-these-common-problems-with-the-a540h-transmission

 

[LugNut]

Could be many things. Describe the behavior better, and if possible, produce and post a Youtube video with great sound of the problem occurring.

 

[RedOldRav]

I engage to reverse and after a second there is a kick that is strong enough to rock the car a little
the sound is not strong as the impact itself.
and it's get weaker after 20 minutes driving.

 

[eodgator]

After looking this up on various forums it appears to be a common problem in cold climates. The engine tends to rev higher when cold to warm the engine and then when you drop it into reverse it clunks. No doubt cold ATF fluid may be partially to blame.

What are the RPMs when it clunks hard vs when it clunks less?

Change the ATF fluid and the filter immediately, NO BACKFLUSHING the ATF until the filter is changed and as much fluid as possible has been drained, once this is complete you can backflush to remove as much ATF as possible. Backflushing with a dirty filter can pull debris from the filter back through the tranny causing catastrophic damage. Oh I know the tranny people will usually scoff at this, but I've seen it happen too many times. Anytime an automatic transmission begins acting up this should be your first and immediate step. Also change the differential fluid every time the ATF is changed. If it is a high mileage vehicle you may want to consider adding something like Lucas or SeaFoam transmission additives when refilling the tranny to help with sticking valves and whatnot.

Check your engine, transmission, and differential mounts. On mine I had a clunk at start up in any gear and its a 5 speed, ended up being the yoke differential carrier mount, I replaced the bushings and the rear mount and problem was solved.

Check the universal joints. Put the rear end up on jackstands, chock her well, release the brake and put her in neutral and check the driveshaft (propeller shaft) for play. Check the carrier bearing in the middle of the shaft if you have one.

I read through your links. Do all the things it suggests in Keep An Eye Open For These Common Problems With The A540H Transmission.

Good luck with it and keep us posted. Sucks when people don't post the final solution or if it was ever resolved.

 

[RedOldRav]

Thx, i'll need probably to order the filter and gasket from abroad, i doubt there is supplier of that old parts in Israel. it will take time but i report when it's done.

 

[LugNut]

Thx, i'll need probably to order the filter and gasket from abroad

Rockauto.com

If AWD, you'll need a lot of the special fluid too -- I went with OEM Toyota. I think it took six or seven quarts.

 

[RedOldRav]

Tnx, but $43 shipping costs kills the bargain, and i'v already got genuine kit including fast shipping from a friend in Europe for $40.
It's AWD indeed otherwise it's cheating.
i'v already got FWD car waiting for engine too long

i paid $60 for 5 quarts of

 

[LugNut]

That's good ATF, but not for AWD 4.1s (unless something's different over there). The correct stuff looks like a mix of ATF and gear oil. See your owner's manual, or search here, for the name of the correct OEM fluid.

 

[RedOldRav]

Searched here

and at Valvoline pdf
"Valvoline has conducted extensive in-house testing, independent lab testing, and field-testing to support MaxLife™ Multi-Vehicle ATF
performance in the broadest range of transmissions; however, it should be noted that MaxLife™ Multi-Vehicle ATF is not an OEM
licensed product. The respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor endorsed MaxLife™ Multi-Vehicle ATF in these
applications. If an OEM licensed product is preferred we recommend Valvoline DEXRON® VI, Valvoline ATF+4® and Valvoline
MERCON®V for the corresponding applications.

Suitable for use in:
 Toyota / Lexus Type T, T-III and T-IV
 JWS 3309 (Aisin Warner)

*Please note that legislation in California prohibits Valvoline from recommending MaxLife™ ATF in certain applications where the viscometrics of MaxLife™
ATF do not match those of the official OEM specification. Valvoline therefore does not recommend the use of MaxLife™ ATF in these applications in California.

 

[RedOldRav]

i delved into the specs of these fluids and found difference in viscosity values 40 100:
Toyota fluid :
Density, at 15°C 0.870
Flash point, °C 186
Boiling point, °C -
Pour point, °C -55
Viscosity, at 40°C, cSt 32.4
Viscosity, at 100°C, cSt 7.4

Valvoline MAXLIFE™ Multi-Vehicle ATF Physical Properties:
Test Typical Property
Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt 5.91
Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt 28.82
Viscosity Index 156
Specific Gravity @ 60°F 0.843
Pour Point, °C, -48
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, cP 10200
Flash Point, COC, °C 202

then i found that Motul multi-ATF have closer values to Toyota spec at cold temprature:

Color Visual Red
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM1298 0.845
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 36.2 mm2/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 7.6 mm2/s
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 185
Flash Point ASTM D92 218°C / 414°F

and stands in Toyota standards too :
Toyota
ATF D-III, ATF WS, ATF Type T, Type T-II, Type T-III, Type T-IV,
JWS 2312D, JWS 3309, JWS 3324, LF,
# 08886-81015, # 08886-00405

so in cold temp the maxlife have lower viscosity vs the Motul, is it better or worse ?

 

[eodgator]

Here is the spec sheet for the A540H tranny with recommended fluid.

http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/A540H.pdf

The transaxle takes gear oil E50, API GL5, SAE 75W-90 or equivalent

The transmission itself takes ATF Type T or equivalent

From what I can find following fluids meet the specification Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF, Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, Castrol Trans-Max Synthetic ATF, Quaker State Ultimate Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF, Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid — to name just a few. Mobil ATF 3309 is a JWS3309-spec transmission fluid engineered for this application.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

 

[RedOldRav]

Before i tried to replace the transmission fluid and filter, i poured a small amount of fluid from the drain plug and had to change plan.
with this color and bits of metal in the fluid, i got 3 options

 

[RedOldRav]

First option is just to wait until total breakdown of the trany.
second overhauling it right now.
third since overhauling costs here $1500, wait hoping the transmission wont fail until gathering enough money to buy instead
Toyota Caldina 3S-GTE Turbo Engine with AWD Manual 5 Speed Trans JDM 3S which costs 1800$ and ditch that horrible A540h tranny
hope it fits without a hassle.

 

[eodgator]

Most transmissions will have some debris in the fluid coming from the sump as it is on the unfiltered side and it is where you want the debris to be, this is why you NEVER backflush a transmission unless you have already drained, removed the pan, cleaned it out, and changed filters.

From more research on the issue of the clunks it is common in cold climates and a fluid change should help, it cannot hurt. Replace one quart of the transmission fluid with a quart of automatic transmission treatment, something like Lucas or Seafoam, that will clean up any sticky valves and make it shift better.

I personally would do it this first before I decided to do anything more intensive.

 

[RedOldRav]

 

[eodgator]

A very good video but he left out a little detail about the flush, if you only flush the transmission, the screen/filter doesn't get cleaned/changed, the bottom of the pan which collects nasty debris doesn't get cleaned. When I change transmission fluid I drain the fluid, remove the pan and screen/filter. Pay particular attention to screen/filter and bottom of pan for debris, a little is common however a lot of metal or other debris is letting you know that you probably have a problem. Clean the pan really well, reinstall a cleaned screen or new filter, reinstall the pan. Now you should go ahead and do the flush to remove the rest of the fluid. This is the only way I will change transmission fluid. Also I don't care what the manual says or doesn't say, I change tranny fluid every 50,000 miles, half that if you tow, really load your RAV4 up, or off-road.

 

[eodgator]

If after changing your fluid, the tranny is shifting worse then you know that you are due a rebuild for the reasons he stated in the video. By the way what color was your fluid, did it smell burnt? I couldn't tell from the pictures. But because you had debris in the fluid I would definitely do the fluid change as I recommended with the transmission treatment added. If it fixes your issues then you can save that rebuild money for another day but make sure you give it a little time for everything to get cleaned up and lubed with the new fluid.

Keep us posted.

 

[RedOldRav]

I spoke with 3 automatic tranny specialist and all of them told me that replacing the old fluid will cause decreased friction in the disks hence a slippage hence non derivable car.

so i don't know if it's worth to take the risk and gamble on it
i got a new filter already waiting for install and can buy the Lucas additive but i don't have 1500$ in stand by
even if i do, no one hold in Israel the master kit for A540H rebuild.
so i'll have to wait about 2 weeks for delivery, moving back to the crappy public transportation.
that's my dilemma.

the color is dark brown, i think it smelled burnt not sure. the real issue is the presence of metal debris in the fluid.

 

[eodgator]

In the states I don't trust too many mechanics, particularly transmission guys they are always wanting to spend my money often with lousy results, that is why I learned to fix most things myself, I will admit automatic transmissions are above my skill level mostly because I don't have the specialized tools needed. I doubt if changing the fluid would make it undrivable, it may slip some until you could get into a shop for a rebuild but it would most likely be drivable enough to limp home and to a repair shop later.

Again, the metal in the fluid coming from the pan is common as long as it's not excessive if the fluid smells burnt do not drive it until you change the fluid. By the way you will need more fluid than the RAV4 takes to do a change and flush. With burnt fluid you must pull the pan and clean it, change the filter, and flush it to get all the burnt crap and debris in the pan and filter out. When flushing you will run it through until it comes out very clean, it should look new. At that time drain off another quart and add the transmission treatment.

 

[RedOldRav]

well i spoke with 2 specialist who told me that they can't rebuild it, cause parts are not available,
the third was just technical manager in ZF rebuild factory(Home - Diuk-zf) none of them tried to spend my money.
i need solid fact or reasonable explanation of how lowering friction wont cause slippage .
BTW you can see in the photos the debris, it's about 20 i guess , anyway that's mean the damage is already done.