Long story short.

AND those first 25,000 mile services are required AT a stealership (so it can be entered into the system) to keep your warranty intact...

That's not what my warranty says.

 

Don’t shoot the messenger, I am quoting what Toyota corporate told me.

ALSO, my warranty and maintenance manual says for my situation to change oil at 5k, so… about the written word vs reality…

 

OP why are you so angry? First of all, the maintenance that they do, at the “stealership” or not, is of not cost to you, so why do you care?

Secondly, as you noted, the oil change is only recommended at 5k miles, not REQUIRED. So of course it won’t be included as part of the required maintenance.

And lastly, this is a plug in hybrid car that will have WAY fewer miles on the engine than the odometer miles suggest. So even if you only change at 10k odo miles, you’ve still got a much shorter interval on the engine itself. When the engine is not running its not degrading the oil any more than if it were just sitting there.

All of this is a big nothingburger.

 

I get the hybrid engine blah, blah, blah. We traded in a hybrid Lexus CT, which NEVER went 10k without an oil change. I am not a noob. We also do more highway miles than EV miles do the commuter mentality doesn’t apply to us.

THEY said it was “suggested”, not the manual.

 

Commical.

The owner needs to be able to substantiate the required maintenance was performed if a repair qualifies for warranty, b/c the manufacture can deny a warranty repair for failure to do the scheduled maintenance.

The two free pil changes and four tire rotations NOT worth free b/c takes too long. Lear to DIY if you are physically able to, otherwise you are left dealing w/ dealer or other service shop crap.

 

Nothing is preventing you from changing at 5k if you want to. But personally, one of the reasons I bothered to buy a plug in hybrid over a regular hybrid is so I could use it it EV mode a good chunk of the time. But to each their own I guess.

 

Sounds like you’re at an impasse with the manufacturer, maintenance status of your vehicle is suspect, and you have a warranty problem. Im happy to help solve it DM me and I’ll take your problem vehicle off your hands for $20k.

 

Getting my 10K service next week early March. Will wait for car and take test drive in another to receive a $25 gift card the "stealership" is offering. I'm retired. Got to get something for my time!!!

 

I did the first oil change on my R4P at 10K miles. This is not a big deal, it's not 1974. Oil is good, engines are better. 5K oil changes are a waste of time, money and resources for most people.

 

I did the first oil change on my R4P at 10K miles. This is not a big deal, it's not 1974. Oil is good, engines are better. 5K oil changes are a waste of time, money and resources for most people.

Since I change oil by the calendar, every 6 months in most circumstances, I'll just get the dealer change before winter with a state inspection. My bet is the dealer won't bat an eyelash and just do the service I asked for. Hopefully they use the 0w-16 for winter, and I can swap it out for summer with something thicker....like it says in the manual...

You both should watch this. Apparently posting it the first time had no effect.

 

I go to a Dealership only when it is unavoidable ---- beyond the limitations of my modest wrenching or TSB & Warranty Services.

I rotate tires and perform oil, oil filter, engine air filter, and cabin air filter changes myself. This is a far better use of time and (unlike the dealerships) the maintenance is done properly.

 

I did in the past. I am retired and getting lazy and would rather do "retired stuff", but apparently I need to get back to doing it.

 

Since I change oil by the calendar, every 6 months in most circumstances, I'll just get the dealer change before winter with a state inspection. My bet is the dealer won't bat an eyelash and just do the service I asked for. Hopefully they use the 0w-16 for winter, and I can swap it out for summer with something thicker....like it says in the manual...

I have some 0w-40 and 0w-20 SynPower I will probably mix together. Thick oil runs smoother and quieter, nd this engine is a little harsh. Frankly, 0w-40 is the best single visc grade, imo. My Euro roots are showing.

Also, just wanted to mention how poorly my "stealership" treats me. Invited to a nice party at a really expensive private club...

Shrimp bigger than ur ****

Usually there's parties in the showroom.

Audi even sent me to their track event with an instructor!

Not to spam the thread, but I find it incredulous when people badmouth their dealership. I remember mine since they sold Deloreans! They treat me well, I can always pop in for coffee, use the fax machine or copier, or make long distance calls...maybe dig into the junk tire pile and throw some plastics in the plastic dumpster.

I'm their "favorite" customer not because I spend a lot of money, but because I'm polite and patient. I know my stuff and ask for it nicely. Maybe chat up the cashier...

 

Also, just wanted to mention how poorly my "stealership" treats me. Invited to a nice party at a really expensive private club...

Usually there's parties in the showroom.

View attachment 178237

Yeah, cuz Porsche / Audi dealerships are JUST LIKE Toyota... I never had to complain about my Lexus dealer either. Hmm, I wonder what the difference is?

 

Remember, maintenance is based on what comes first: time (months) OR mileage.

0W-16 is specd for the R4P and many other 4cyl Toyotas. 0W-20 is supposed to be a fallback if 0W-16 is not available. Some people will use 0W-20 by choice.
At the end of the day, it is ultimately your car and money, so do as you like.

PLEASE don't mix your other 0W-XX, and use in the R4P. Why tempt fate? Toyota's R&D was done using 0W-16. A thicker weight will most likely give you bad MPG, and hopefully no other problems.

You are probably in the rare minority that actually LIKES their dealership and has a PLEASANT experience. It seems MOST do NOT have a pleasant experience. It is what it is, at the end of the day. Life will continue for the consumer and the dealership.

 

Remember, maintenance is based on what comes first: time (months) OR mileage.

This recommendation obviously ignores the major differences present between the average PHEV, HV, and ICE. I certainly appreciate oil changes are relatively cheap, but here now w/ our R4P which has about 2,850 miles now at 5 months, and of those 2,850 miles maybe 800-900 involves HV mode as the rest is pure EV mode. I take this a step further by NEVER letting the ICE start unless I'm committed to fully warming it up. So when its very cold and trips are under 10 minutes or so it's steering wheel and seat heaters and a good down jacket and EV mode only. I find in icy temps like we're having now near Denver (-5 to +30F) it takes at least 10 minutes in HV mode for the car to go into EV mode at a stop, for example, which I use as a marker for fully warmed up ICE. I do not like the idea of partially warming up the entire block so this is our practice and I have to think this makes our particular use of the ICE a pretty much not a high-demand use, as for example frequent short trips using the ICE where it only partially gets up to temp might be. The recommendations for more freq than every 1y or 10K miles seems like it would apply well in high-demand use scenarios, but again our use does not seem very high-demand.

 

See in the USA, the EPA mandates that the same visc oil used in their MPG test is the sole one recommended in the manual. So we don't get the old visc/temp charts here, which is still used in the rest of the world. Basically, don't use 15w-40 in the Arctic and don't use 0w-16 in Saudi Arabia, but that's a starting point in my mind.

Since I'm already doing 6 month changes, it's easy for me to switch visc for winters.

 

Thanks, but I'll just rely on the Owner's Manual that came with my Toyota. Maybe others care what Mercedes-Benz is publishing in their OMs but I do not.

 

Oh boy we’re going to bring out the oil snobs who say you can’t run anything but 0w-16 in the US.
“The car was designed for it”
“I don’t want to ruin it”
🙄

 

According to AMD the car care nut his rationale for changing oil every 5K miles OR 6 mo whatever comes first has to do w/ dilution of the oil and so its viscosity by gasoline to the point it may not stick on the walls of the hard parts (esp w/ 0W-16), and in the case of hybrids because the ICE is cycling on and off and this somehow impacts oil quality. I challenged the first issue w/ my now 5mo old R4P because by the time 6mo rolls around the car will have around 3500m is all, and of that only ~800 miles was done in HV mode. It makes no sense that 800 miles worth of 'dilution' is identical to 5000miles. Moreover, as mentioned we never use HV mode unless we know the car will be FULLY warmed up. At the current cold winter temps the ICE runs constantly for at least 10 min and never even stops at stoplights, so once again this is not the same as a standard use of your common hybrid for his other rationaleOn a new car w/ tight parts perhaps evaluating oil level as a marker for dilution by gasoline. Because oil contracts when cold it would be important to standardize the measurement by checking the oil say at 10 minutes after shutting the car down after the ICE was fully warmed, or something along those lines. Obviously this assume the car is not leaking/burning oil which with a new car could be safely assumed most often.

 

Is the 10k interval specific to the Prime? My '22 hybrid shows 5k maintenance intervals.

 

Have you even bothered to look at service/warranty booklet issued for your vehicle? Its spelled out what needs to done when.

The every 5k mile interval is likely for tire rotation. If you drive under "SEVERE" operating conditions, you are likely looking at 5k OCI (Oil Change Interval), in addition to the normal 5k mile tire rotation interval.

 

BTW the local dealer told me I'm free to use the every 10K miles oil changes at 5K intervals as desired--because they give you a fixed number of oil changes during the first 2y or something like that.

 

Some of the dealers say that. You get 2 oil changes. My dealer won't do i at 5k unless I pay for it. I'll do it myself.

 

People actually think "engineers" write the owners manual. No, it's accountants and bean-counter types like EPA compliance officers. They don't actually care about engine life beyond warranty period. They want max MPG and the lowest possible maintenance cost for fleet sales and dealer service obligations. If someone trusts all of that hype beyond a little common sense and research, hey...I'm not really talking to them anyway. they probably are conformists who follow "authority figures" over their own skills of perception.

Go ahead with the highest allowable engine wear 0w-16 without research and "recommended" 10k change intervals, see how that works out for you. Never use higher octane either, even though it says 87 is "minimum octane" in the manual...that's perfect for you.

 

Do you have a lot of experience with VAG cars, or is it just guesswork?

 

My standards are much higher than “Vag” cars lol, appropriate name… Do you have a man bun?

I won’t participate in a discussion about them, it would clearly be pointless. Let’s just part ways knowing that we won’t be best buddies.

 

That makes a lot of sense. You only argue in the passive voice. That must work out well for the people around you.

Don't get too cocky about your RAV4, this car is for my wife. Plus all someone has to do is look at the last decades of RAV DRAB to grasp how lame they are compared to German cars. My Auntie has one.

It's more Argument From Ignorance. People knocking other brands without any frame of reference is FOR THE LAME. Maybe that babble carries the day at the Toyota service counter, but it's not a good look in the wild.

 

It's like clockwork. Every month or so a new member joins R4W and finds it necessary to prove that they know more about oil than everyone else. I'm not complaining though. It sure is great entertainment.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

Truth.

Car Care Nut YouTube channel is our friend. Well those of us who are unedumacated and ignent anyway.

 

What an odd thread. I know dealerships call it 2 free years of complimentary oil changes and tire rotations, but really you paid for it up front. Check your window sticker, it’s ToyoCare.

You’re entitled to 2 oil changes and 4 tire rotations with purchase. My dealership will let you do the oil changes at 5k mile intervals if you really wanted to, but you only paid for 2 when you bought the car. They’d do tire rotations out to 20k miles at 5k intervals but you may have used your two oil changes by 10k miles if you requested 5k oil intervals.

My ‘19 XLE premium gas model (before I traded it) had good Blackstone reports with 10k mile oil change intervals. 10k miles intervals for a Prime you don’t even charge regularly would be just fine for the vast majority of people.

 

I'll stick to what is recommended in my manual when it comes to oil and fluids, and not what is written in this thread. And no I do not follow the 10K mile intervals. I guess some have a bigger toolbox than the rest of us.

 

I just want to get my point across, that thicker viscs are "more ideal" according to Toyota. I totally get the idea behind 16 weight with the hybrid/EV kicking in and out.

Maintenance wise, if we think if the EV is running, and hours on the gas engine is reduced, you can similarly reduce the oil changes accordingly, but I have a concern.... not getting up to full operating temp long enough to burn off water condensation and excess fuel from it running in open-loop mode. When all that mixes up into a warm froth it's not pretty. It's best to drain that stuff out and replace it with a modest oil verses seeking the extended 10k changes, mostly with a Prime that actually runs in EV. I would not extend changes with a half-warm engine. I do think Toyota considered this effect, and maybe there's an algorithm built in to run the engine for extended periods. Most mfgs use an oil life monitor of some sort, I dunno why not here.

IF I was trying to go 10k+ or a full year, I would consider the VW 508 spec lube, for sure. Like I said I have a bunch of SynPower 0w-20 already, and can dash it with 0w-40 if I want. A high spec oil is really the way to go at this level, but there's no actual test sequence spec to rely on, not even AMSoil products, lol....with the exception of VW 508 and maybe ACEA A5 the generic light visc Euro spec. PZ Platinum Ultra and maybe Synpower 5w-30s come to mind. A5 is a solid spec....Dexos 1.2 as well.

Relative Performance Comparison Tool for Passenger Car Specifications - Engine Oil Additives - The Lubrizol Corporation

online.lubrizol.com

 

I just want to get my point across, that thicker viscs are "more ideal" according to Toyota. I totally get the idea behind 16 weight with the hybrid/EV kicking in and out.

My kids Camry recommends the 0w-16 oil and it isn't a Hybrid/EV.

 

I'm saying 0w-16 makes sense for hybrids, normal gas engines not so much. Remember, when a gas engine starts, the oil can be 1000x thicker, and it thins down as the engine warms. So if you get the engine stopping and starting cold, you want the oil to be as thin as possible during the process, not excessively thick in the 100s of cSt dragging on the engine. I will produce a new temp/visc chart for this subject, buy here's an older one....

As you see, different grades are 3-4x thicker than each other and 1000x thicker than operating temp, around 8 to 9 cSt.

Here's a standard chart....

See how all the viscs overlap at different temps? That's why guys who state nonsense like- the engine is made to run on just one single visc are dead wrong....lol hilarious.