the shop manual says the crank sensor trigger has 34 teeth. So it should be a 36 -2 (two teeth missing/gap off a 36 tooth wheel).

what are you thinking of doing?

 

Thanks! A fairly common configuration is 36 teeth with one missing (so really, 35 actual teeth plus a space for the 36th). I'm toying with the idea of installing a turbo in my '96 Rav using MegaSquirt. Knowing how the engine triggers the ignition cycle is key to setting up MS.

I turboed an '87 Mr2 back in 2004 using MS to provide engine management and it's still running today. I eventually sold the car because it was too dang low to the ground for my old knees. I love the Rav, but miss the kick you get from a turbo.

I figure I have three choices: sell the Rav, go with a turbo MegaSquirt setup or go all out with a 3s-gte swap. Haven't quite made up my mind yet. I certainly have the skills but I'm not certain I still have the energy for that kinda project. :lol:

 

I think the reason that they have a two tooth gap is that during the larger gap the cam sensor is trigger to indicate #1 TDCC (top dead center of compression stroke). This is the basis for our sequential fuel injection.

I didn't think that the regular MSII could run of a 36-2 trigger wheel. Is the Sequencer now available? They say this could run a 36-2 trigger

http://www.megamanual.com/seq/index.htm

 

Oh wait...

All the info I have is for a 98+ with waste spark, it might be different with a dizzy. Sorry I didn't pick up on your year till I saw the ignition wiring diagram. I would think it should be the same but I can not confirm this.

 

MegaSquirt is a major learning experience. It’s a lot like taking a college-level engineering course with a focus on engine management. I’m still in the early stages of learning on this particular car. However, I’m pretty certain I can make it work.

My understanding, the ’96 3s-fe in the Rav puts out a Crankshaft signal followed by cam signal from the distributor.

Crankshaft position sensor (NE signal): Determines crankshaft position for spark timing.

Camshaft position sensor (also called VVT sensor) (G signal): Determines when cylinder #1 is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke for spark timing.

Ignition: The primary coil current is controlled by the ECM through the Ignition Timing (IGT) signal. The IGT signal is a voltage signal that turns ON/ OFF the main transistor in the igniter to start/stop primary coil current, which triggers a spark.

The MS1 version can work with this setup, and most likely with the wasted spark setup in later years. See: "Cam or Crank second Trigger" or "Generic Wheel with Wasted Spark Settings" on the MS1-Extra Basic Configuration manual page:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Basic_Configuration_Manual.htm

 

Is that G,NE signal waveform for your rav?

That waveform is is basically the same as the one in my shop book but the cam signal voltage rise starts exactly when the crank wave is at 0v of the missing teeth section (oscilloscope snap shot). The ecm's reference point of TDCC of #1 would be different.

I wonder what relation the signal waveforms have to engine placement in degrees (Deg) to TTDC #1.

What part of the G waveform would signal TDCC of #1? voltage rise +, max +, max -, voltage rise -, or the 0 voltage between max+ and max -

Where would the crank tooth gap be located in relation to TDCC of #1?

Unfortunately this is another area that the shop manual doesn't cover (I guess it shouldn't have to as this is way beyond what a tech would need to know for diagnostics). It would be very use full to know if you where going to run sequential injection and not batch fire

 

MegaSquirt is a major learning experience.

I've done 3 MS projects.
One NA, one supercharged draw-through, and one turbo MPI. All 4 cylinder toyotas (4Runner/Truck).

MS is relatively easy if you want it to just control fuel, but as I'm sure you're after timing control, you'll need it on a turbo with a 9:1 compression ratio motor anyway.

You might see if anyone else has done it with this particular motor (isn't it shared with the Camry) - that's the best place to start...

The *other* piece of advice I can give you is that I'm done integrating toyota ignitions. The turbo 4runner that I have uses a plug-and-play harness that I built, no slicing of the factory wiring.. However finding similar projects, troubleshooting, and doing setup is very hard if you're the only one doing it. The only reason I see to do it is if your in CA and need to fool the smog guys or if you need to return your vehicle to stock. I'd strongly encourage you to weld on a crank-trigger ring and do a simple, reliable, EDIS-4 system instead...

 

Is that G,NE signal waveform for your rav?

No, that's from a chapter on ignition I downloaded from the TIS (Toyota Technical Information System).

calgaryrav4, I don't have any answers to your questions. Too early in my research so far.

cb1000rider, when I did my Mr2 project, I was the first person to develop a system using MS-Extra on the 4age engine family. It was tough sleding and most of the time I was flying blind. I had help from people all over the world, which made it a fun trip. I ended up with a system that was virtually plug-n-play. DIYAutoTune still hosts the old article I wrote after completing the install: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/jamesl/jamesl_mr2_megasquirt_122.htm

We'll see how it goes. EDIS is a definite alternative, although I still like the idea of using the stock systems.

 

Ahh, you're that JAMES!
I wrote the article for the 22re / 22rte that DIY hosts. (different user name)
Glad to hear I'm in good company.

I've *thought* about putting a turbo on this thing - and other posts show the hardware to do it, but the RAV4 was bought as a "don't mess with it" car.. My turbo 4runner is retired under cover in the garage, mainly due to 17 mpg with a w turbo!

The other issue for me is that this thing is after 1995, so it's OBD-II. We have scans, although I *think* if they can't find the connector they have to run it on a sniffer instead.

You're very capable - so I look forward to what you come up with. Let me know if you run into an OEM manual on PDF also... (sorta necessary for MS wiring).

I'd still do EDIS..

 

I saw your article on the DIY site. The founder of DIYAutoTune is an MR2 owner. He was following along while I was working on my MS install. Once I posted my "how to" article back in '04, he had his car running on MS within two days. During that same time, the only source for MS kits was Glens Garage, and he had fallen way behind on deliveries. Jerry saw the problem and started assembling kits for sale, and was so successful he's been in business ever since!

On the wiring diagrams, I subscribed to the Toyota TIS site for two days ($15) and downloaded most of the documentation for the '96 Rav4 that I could find. It's a slow process because every single sub system is in an individual file and you have to download them all, one a time.

Here's the wiring diagram for my '96:
http://members.cox.net/jdlaugh/electrical diagram.pdf

 

diypnp

Guys-- Jerry here from DIY. Have you taken a look at the DIYPNP and considered using it? The N76 model is just what it appears you'd need for the 96-00 RAV4's.


http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/

 

Looks interesting, although a bit pricey. It seems to have a lot of features and functions that I wouldn't need for what I have planned. Still, nice to have everything in one box with plugs that match the harness.

Do you offer just the harness connector, by any chance? I found what appears to be the appropriate connector on the Tyco Electronics site, but the distributors all have a minimum purchase price... Lowest I've seen is $35, while the connector itself is only $8.25.....

 

Looks interesting, although a bit pricey. It seems to have a lot of features and functions that I wouldn't need for what I have planned. Still, nice to have everything in one box with plugs that match the harness.

Do you offer just the harness connector, by any chance? I found what appears to be the appropriate connector on the Tyco Electronics site, but the distributors all have a minimum purchase price... Lowest I've seen is $35, while the connector itself is only $8.25.....

We don't normally sell the connectors by themselves, but shoot me an email and we might be able to work something out. We go way back . jerry@diyautotune.com

 

Guys, We share the same engine with Camrys and some old Celicas... It might be worth checking the celicas forums and ask around. I'm sure there are plenty of those cars with MS controlling their engines. I'm thinking of installing a MS on a 3S-GTE turbo engine (and I'll definetly use the EDIS system ) lol

MR2s also have the 3SFE in them.

 

You would be surprised. I've search and couldn't find any specific projects that use the stock ignition. That said, I'm going to move ahead with an MS project and will post a "how-to" when I'm done. I'll start another thread when/if I make some actual progress worth reporting.

 

I'm just getting started on the MS world... from what i've read it seems the EDIS-4 system uses 2 coils for a 2bank of 2sparkplugs configuration. Does this means it will run in wasted spark?

 

Yes fords edis-( 4,6,8 ) are all a waste spark setup

 

Let me know if you decide to go on with the MS project. I would be nice to have another guy working at the same time as I do. This way we might help each other on our problems. I'd definetly go for EDIS though... I'm working on a 3S-GTE that already has direct ignition.

 

I'm going to start a new thread on MegaSquirt in the DIY section. My Rav has a 36 tooth wheel on the crank with two missing, call it a 34-2. It's at least possible it could work in a setup similar to Edis using the new MS code and a V3 board or newer.

Here's my discussion at MSExtra.com asking about ignition options: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=34456&p=233436#p233436

 

I'm looking forward to it.
My RAV4 needs a new motor, seems due to a failing small end rod bushing/bearing...
I'm afraid to 3S-GTE motor, as I don't know what pitfalls I'm going to have with mating the stock transmission to that motor - or pitfalls of using the 3SGTE transmission and adapting to an AWD driveline...

Are you going to turbo?

Notes, JamesL's implementation will be for pre-98 only - that is 3SFE with a distributor.

 

3S-GTE engine fits perfectly on the stock tranny. You don't even have to fabricate new engine mounts. Just make sure the engine is in good condition and that you have the complete UNCUT engine harnes with it's corresponding ECU. I bought a gen4 3SGTE and it's been really REALLY hard to get info about it. If you want to buy a turbo engine, get the 3rd gen 3SGTE from an ST205 Celica. There is TONS of info available from the celica people and TONS of performance parts to install to the engine. Don't even think the gen4 is better.. it is not. Most celicas with gen2 and gen3 engines are running at about 300HP with many on the 400HP levels.

From what I've read... you can also install the celica transmission on a rav with no trouble as long as you have ALL the "car belly". If you can get the tranny, front axels, rear differential (get an LSD one), rear axles, EVERYTHING then you will have an amazing ride and have a lot of fun with you "new" rav4. You might have to make some minor adjustments.. but any decent garage shop that installs engine swaps will be able to do that for you without any trouble. Now... I don't want to make this job sound as "easy"... but you can be confident that it's VERY doable... it's not like you will have you car 2 months parked waiting for custom parts to be manufactured.

Extra tip... Make sure you buy the engine and have at least 2Grand for buying stuff for your engine... (clutch.. flywheel... damaged sensors... aftermarket intake filter... front mounted intercooler.. piping.. it all adds up really fast...)