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RAV4 PHEV confirmed for 2021

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#881 ·
purdyd said:
The way understand it you will have a 126 hp ev mode, 176 hp ice = 302 hp


126 hp won’t exactly burn your tires off but should be fine with all that electric motor torque for short trips.

flip It into hybrid mode to drag race
Click to expand...
Except ... the current RAV4 hybrid already has 118 hp in the front electric motor and 54 in the rear, which already exceeds your 126 hp estimate.

But horsepower doesn't really add like that. The different motors reach their peak horsepower at different speeds and conditions. In fact, that's one of the best parts about a hybrid, to have higher average horsepower and torque across a range of speeds by leveraging the best of different technologies. So it's not inconsistent for the current hybrid to have a 176 hp ICE, 118 hp front electric, and 54 hp rear electric and still only get 219 hp total.

As another twist, my bet is the RAV4 Prime will do something similar to the Prius Prime, allowing MG2 to drive the vehicle when under EV mode. If so, my estimate is that change alone would give it around 151 hp from the front and 54 hp from the rear, or in the range of 200 hp total (though see the caveat above, the power probably doesn't add up like that if they don't reach the peak at the same time). That's actually what I expected them to announce, and it would be enough to have a passable PHEV SUV. Maybe when they make an XLE Prime that's what they'll do?

But they went well above that. It looks like they shifted the power range on the ICE, which probably changes the overlap to increase the peak hybrid horsepower a bit, but that's not enough to get to 302 hp. No, they must have added more electric power, too. My guess is they added it to the rear motor (it's already underpowered IMO, and this would balance the power better, and this is the easiest change to maintain common parts across models). So electric mode is not going be underpowered at all. A 150 hp rear electric motor would be awesome!
 
#882 ·
Re: Tax credit for battery affecting MSRP

When you buy a hybrid/PHEV/EV, don't look at battery prices now and think that's the replacement cost. Massive price drops are coming. The Bolt EV battery was about $16K 2-3 years ago, GM parts now sells them for under $12K! So, when the tax credit runs out, expect lower MSRP (makes more sense) or discounting (GM preference).

Bolt EV battery:
2017: $15K
electrek.co

GM lists the price of the Chevy Bolt EV's battery pack at $15,734.29 - $262/kWh

The cost of battery packs is still believed to be the main barrier in bringing down the overall price of...
electrek.co electrek.co

2019: <$12K

GM Parts Store | Discount GM Parts

Find GM parts for your car or truck at GM Parts Store. We offer a wide selection of genuine GM parts and accessories, competitive prices, and expert advice. Shop online or visit our store today to get the parts you need.
www.gmpartsstore.com www.gmpartsstore.com

cleantechnica.com

BNEF Shocker — Electric Cars Price Competitive In 2022 As Battery Costs Plummet

In a new report, BNEF predicts electric cars will become price competitive with conventional cars by 2022. Perhaps the EV revolution is really happening?
cleantechnica.com cleantechnica.com
 
#883 ·
VonJot said:
Got the message today from my (Dutch) dealership: they think the RAV4 PHEV will cost approx. 20% more than the '19 HV. Serious money, talking about € 10.000 over here based on the XSE-trim.
In February/March 2020 the details will arrive at the dealer, and around mid 2020 the car will be available in the showrooms and orders can be placed.
Well, dont't know yet, but i think i'll pass.
Click to expand...
I hope that 20% is not true. The Limited Hybrid is about $40K fully loaded. The Prime would be $48K + 10% tax or almost $53K minus $7.5K is $45.5K. That's a lot of change.
 
#889 ·
photontorpedo said:
I hope that 20% is not true. The Limited Hybrid is about $40K fully loaded. The Prime would be $48K + 10% tax or almost $53K minus $7.5K is $45.5K. That's a lot of change.
Click to expand...
....and a terrible value for a RAV4. There's been a lot of good discussion on potential Prime pricing, and IMO the max price that makes sense for the loaded XSE Prime is $45k. For comparison, the Escape only charges a $4,775 premium for their PHEV over their hybrid. If I'm wrong and it hits showrooms at $50k I'll be buying a CX-5 Signature for $36k which does 60 in 6.2, handles better and is more luxurious. Gas mileage isn't a significant factor in my decision. If I feel compelled to spend $50k+ it'll be for a full EV or something German. I have to feel there's good value for my money. A $50k RAV4 is not a good value.
 
#897 ·
RAV4PRIMEshopper said:
This should put the $50k talk to rest:

www.bmwblog.com

2020 BMW X3 xDrive30e plug-in hybrid priced slightly below $50,000

We learned that the 2020 BMW X3 xDrive30e will be priced at $49,545 MSRP, including destination & handling.
www.bmwblog.com www.bmwblog.com

I'm beginning to think my $45k number is a little high as well.
Click to expand...
$50k for an X3 plug-in hybrid? That's a "unicorn" for sure. You'll never find one.

Instead, I bet the typical X3 plug-in will be heavily optioned... $60k and up.

For comparison, the MSRP for a stripper X3 is $42k. None like that at my local BMW dealer.

The MSRP for the twenty X3s in their inventory range from $53k to $80k..
 
#898 ·
When I was looking for a car a few years ago, I looked at the Mercedes GLA250. It was advertised as starting about $30k. When I started adding things like accessories most anyone would want, the car was about $10-12K more. BMW will get away with the same thing.
 
#899 · (Edited)
jwiedle24 said:
Good find! I'm liking my 42,900 number from the start...with delivery ? ?
Click to expand...
How much value do you put in safety tech because that BMW doesn't even have adaptive cruise standard? I just looked on their website and a minimum of $2,200 extra just to add adaptive cruise. You want heated seats, steering wheel, smart key, that will require the premium package of $5k. Adaptive front headlights and auto high beam is something you want? That would be part of a $7,750 package.
 
#900 ·
It’s clear to me that no matter what the price point of this Rav Prime, Toyota has started down the road of subscription pricing as a cost center. Be it Remote Start, Safety Sense, or whatever, they’re going to find new ways to keep their hands in your pocket. Owning a Toyota is going get more and more expensive, even if the price of the car itself appears to be affordable. It’s also clear that materials will get ever cheaper while higher tech (which may or may not work well) gets buyers in the door.
I’d be waiting for at least the second year of this Prime for them to clean up first year issues and make clear what the real costs/issues will be.
 
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