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JBL system tweeter replacement

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BeatupVR4

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2003 Forester X
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So after the subwoofer "upgrade", https://www.rav4world.com/threads/jbl-subwoofer-performance-upgrade-mod.332816/ , I got the bug to do some more enhancements to the stereo in the Rav.

The biggest impact seems to be from changing out the OEM JBL 2" tweeters to a set of coax 3.5s. The consensus seems to be that the OEM speakers are 3 ohm (more on that later) and JBLs line of after market speakers were also 3 ohm and match well. I started looking into the possible options and came across the Infinity reference line. I remember them being "higher end" back in the day but know that they under the Harmon umbrella now. Some more looking showed that's also the case for JBL.

On Amazon the Infinitys were going for $45, the JBL GX $55, and the JBL Club for $80. Reading as much as I could they all had the same specs. Plus One cone, textile tweeter, 3 ohm, 25 watt. And they look curiously similar, same basket, similar magnet...

Infinity Reference

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JBL GX

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JBL Club

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So I went with the Infinitys.

They looked nice out of the box and sounded good on the workbench. The documentation said 4 ohm so I metered them and for 2.7 ohms DC or ~3 ohms nominal impedance.
After taking the door panel apart and yanking the stocker I was wondering how to mount them. I didn't love the methods I had seen so far. I contemplated hacking up the original mounts and modding them to fit the 3.5, they look SO close. But then decided to practice my modeling and use my 3D printer to come up with a little cleaner solution that I could also share with the community.

First go I had missed a couple features on the door and I'm not %100 the door panel would fit on the best. Plus I think I could get some additional angle out of it to better fit the door panel lanes.

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Admittedly my model was complete trash and if you tried to change anything it broke the rest of the tree so today I started from scratch. Now I can change the angles of the mounting face and it's location X,Y, and Z relative to the mounting flanges and it all just auto updates. Also cleaned up the look a bit.

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Currently printing a drivers side to check fit and go from there. Very excite!

Long story short the 3.5" speakers make a huge positive difference. The JBL 2" cones have almost NO high end when you have one of these hooked up and fade left to right. I did measure the tweeter and the woofer and they are both 1.8 DC ohm so they are actually 2 ohm factory speakers not 3 ohm as I was seeing. That said the blend of at least one of these with the stock 2 ohm woofers seems fine. I'll also be doing some deadening of the door skins and panel and will report back once it's all put together.
 
#2 ·
That's the advantage of the JBL system, each speaker has a direct wired connection to the amp, whereas the non-JBL has the tweeter & woofer wired in parallel with a HPF on the tweeter. Don't suppose you have a scope to measure where the roll-off occurs at the tweeter & woofer? 🙃 The mount definitely looks much better than my painted, aviation-snipped type from used license plate. 🤣
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Having seen your thread that makes it much easier to install a set of components with a passive crossover which would have been my preferred method. For a 1" tweeter I think that was a great method. And hiding the crossover underneath it. Just don't love it for the 3.5".

Couple observations from last night and this morning after an hour long drive each on the V1 mount. Musically it sounds great but with the much more sealed chamber there is some really unpleasant resonance in the lower speaking frequencies. This really pops up on NPR or talk radio, weather, traffic. That being said on my V3 mount I added a hole for the factory plug to go through and I also really tightened up the diameter to the point were the terminals hit the inside wall just before the driver lays flat so I added a "port" to that area both for clearance and to try to eliminate the resonance. I also added some angle and height to get the driver more closely positioned to the stock tweeter. That's what I get for not modeling the stupid terminals. Firing up the printer now!

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I also found a rattle that's been annoying me for a year+. The cable for the door latch rattles against the inner door skin where it goes through it. With the door panel on it almost sounds like it's coming from the upper B pillar but with it off it's very clear it's lower. I shoved a napkin in there on the ride home and it was completely silent. If anyone has a similar rattle take a peak there. I'll be foaming the other side too when I get there.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I didn't scope it but @SoNic67 did some testing and my uncalibrated ear agrees with his results. It looks(sounds) like the crossover point is 500ish for the lower woofer. It barely plays voice. I will assume the tweeter gets 500 and up and that seems to check out to the ear as well. The 3.5" woofer isn't filtered on the speaker so it's trying to play whatever it's given. Judging by the sound and excursion 500ish sounds about right. It's naturally rolling off at higher frequency and there is a cap in series with the tweeter for a basic first order high pass filter. I didn't check the value as it's under heat shrink but for a 1 inch tweeter it's in the 2500 Hz range for sure. So instead of a weird two way with a larger than normal tweeter and a lower than usual crossover this setup is basically a 3 way. Woofer 0-500, midrange 500-rollover, tweeter 2500-20k.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Finally able to get some more time into this. On like the 5th print I finally got the driver centered in the stock grill as much as possible and still have the beefiest mount and still be able to fit the door panel back on.

8 hours and I'll have the final version pair.

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To update a previous comment about tuning out resonance it ends up that was the stock JBL woofer. I had the "tweeter" disconnected for a few days and the resonance was still there. Apparently the JBL woofer gets really pissed without the door panel on.

I'll update with final pictures but I'm confident in these so if anyone is interested in a set feel free to PM me. Hopefully will get them wrapped up this weekend but there's some rain on the forecast and I'm waiting on one more pack of sound deadening.
 
#8 ·
I'm def interested to see how this turns out. I have a non-JBL system and I put some JBL's into the fronts and I just need to get my hands on another JBL rear to replace those. The tweeters are the only thing I have neglected. However I do have an amp driving all the speakers and audio is way more complex then it appears at face value! I don't even know where to start with tweeters. All I know is that I got some infiniti speakers and the rubber connectors to the cones blew, hence my "upgrade" to JBL with the all paper cones connected via fabric/weave.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Are the JBL speakers you put in the front coaxial? As in do they have a built in tweeter in the center? If so for a non-JBL system I would probably just use those and remove the stock tweeters. Or like @KTL did install a set of separate components with an external crossover and both drivers in the stock locations.

You could possibly run something like this and your JBL 6.5s in parallel but that would give you a 1.5 ohm nominal impedance and I'm not sure if your amp could handle that. Too many unknown variables to make a recommendation really.

This is more for someone with the JBL system that would like it to be more bolt in and not have to worry about fabbing anything up themselves. I will say it's highly recommended as it makes a large difference in clarity and top end for <$100.
 
#10 ·
They are actually the stock JBL's, I ran across a 2012 RAV4 limited in the junkyard and I couldn't help myself. Unfortunately, someone had already taken one of the rear doors and the subwoofer, hence my incomplete set. I also neglected to take the tweeters, oh well. So anyways, the fronts are component and I believe the non-JBL speakers are wired in parallel w/ the tweeters. I'm in the process of investigating options for the tweeters. My speaker amp is an alpine mid-grade but is only a 4 channel capable of 4 ohm. I should prob upgrade to a 2 ohm since that is what stock JBL's are rated for? Right now I have no issues with volume or clarity, I'm unsure if a 4 ohm amp on 2 ohm speakers is destructive. I have heard people say that the stock JBL's are bass heavy and to compensate for that I have turned the high pass filter to like 180 or something to keep the bass at a minimum. Perhaps I am handicapping my system, I don't know, I am a total newb when it comes to audio.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Most, if not all, of Alpine 4-ch amps can handle down to 2-ohm stable per channel regardless of price points. You can bridge two channels into one for 4-ohm mono, but don't load it down to 2-ohm mono if it's not rated for it. AFAIK, the 2012 Limited trim DOES NOT have factory JBL amp & speakers since its audio interface was primitive-Entune based.

I also had added an Alpine 4-ch amp shown here while driving some Pioneer coaxials, then as @BeatupVR4 indicated, upgraded JBL GTO components for front, and coaxials for rear shown here. I would suggest to get new speakers since those salvaged ones are at least 12 years old now, and may not last too long. There are plenty of affordable speaker options, but the most costly items will be @BeatupVR4 custom tweeter brackets if he sells them. 😁
 
#12 ·
That's very clean! The real reason why I got the 12 year old speakers is because I had 2 speakers that I had installed in 2018 that their rubber surrounds had cracked. Ideally, your right, I'd def be better off getting new speakers. But for now, I'm a cheapskate and I'm gonna see how long these speakers go. They are definitely more robust in their construction than most aftermarket unless you are looking to spend hundreds per pair of speaker. They are in fact OEM JBL's with Toyota part #'s on them, my guess is that the junkyard put the wrong year on their listing. I didn't actually look at the production date. But if they are 2011's that just makes them just as old as my tweeters hah.

I really need to take the time to clean up my install. I was very careful with all the wires and not scrimping, but the powered sub is underneath the front passenger seat and I think I would rather do your method and route cables under the carpet and put the sub under the rear seats. I know some people have gone so far as to mount a sub in the OEM spot, but I don't know if I want to go to that effort. But as far as the amp, mine is in the exact same spot as yours is. Believe it or not, I actually got the next generation of Amp that you got, MRV-F300.

Regarding the brackets, I have a 3D printer myself and would love an opportunity to print something useful for the car rather than constantly printing new fidget spinners for the infant haha.
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
Well ALMOST got these installed this weekend. For the passenger side mount I just mirrored it in the slicer and while it printed and looked beautiful the access hole for the terminals wasn't lined up anymore so it wouldn't work. 😄 I made a whole new model for the passenger side and it's printing up now. I got the drivers door all sound deadened and back together though. I used up some previous Noico 80 mil and the new Siless 80 mil and "Pro" that they offer.

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Fit's really well and is nice and lined up in the grill. (which didnt' photograph well at all)

It was so nice out Saturday I also got the rear end deadened.

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Not shown I also got super far up into the D pillars which made a HUGE difference. Placed the 80 mil right over the tiny factory square and the "pro" over that. If no one has ever had that back lower carpet out of the storage hole the bottom floor is basically a drum. You NEED to do that area if you are going to do anything. You can see the spray out deadening that Toyota used which actually works pretty good. I didn't do much of the wheel wells as it's double or triple panels and is very solid. The cross brace between wheel wells is also very solid but the floor in front of that(behind the rear seats) where the hidden plastic cubby is was horrendously loud. I did squares of 80 mil between the factory stuff and then a whole strip of 80 over everything. Also not shown is the fuel fill panel area on the left was pretty loud so that got the 80 and Pro also. Also did the rear door some more.

I'll be doing the passenger door with the 3.5 install ASAP and the rear doors eventually. Just the one door and back done made a very noticeable difference. I'm probably going to leave the floor under the seats alone for now and use the left over on my girlfriends Forester and it's also pretty loud and she couldn't believe the difference it made in the Rav.

As for the tweeter mounts I'd totally sell sets. I'm printing them out of carbon filled PETG for the stiffness and temp resistance and they are 8 hours of printer time so $20 a set plus shipping ($8 USPS flat rate box?) and they are yours. I know they will fit the Infinitys I used and probably both versions of JBL available too. I used the RED WOLF adapters off Amazon and they fit perfect.
 
#14 ·
How did you determine which parts were and were not loud? I def like the idea of not doing the scorched earth method of putting sound deadening. I’m just curious. How much matting did you end up needing? If nothing else, I’ve wanted to dynomat the floor for quite some time so that my commute to and from work is more tolerable.

also, would you be willing to share the stl for $free.99? I understand if not though.
 
#15 ·
BeatupVR4 said:
Well ALMOST got these installed this weekend. For the passenger side mount I just mirrored it in the slicer and while it printed and looked beautiful the access hole for the terminals wasn't lined up anymore so it wouldn't work. 😄 I made a whole new model for the passenger side and it's printing up now. I got the drivers door all sound deadened and back together though. I used up some previous Noico 80 mil and the new Siless 80 mil and "Pro" that they offer.

View attachment 204692
View attachment 204693
View attachment 204694

Fit's really well and is nice and lined up in the grill. (which didnt' photograph well at all)

It was so nice out Saturday I also got the rear end deadened.

View attachment 204695

Not shown I also got super far up into the D pillars which made a HUGE difference. Placed the 80 mil right over the tiny factory square and the "pro" over that. If no one has ever had that back lower carpet out of the storage hole the bottom floor is basically a drum. You NEED to do that area if you are going to do anything. You can see the spray out deadening that Toyota used which actually works pretty good. I didn't do much of the wheel wells as it's double or triple panels and is very solid. The cross brace between wheel wells is also very solid but the floor in front of that(behind the rear seats) where the hidden plastic cubby is was horrendously loud. I did squares of 80 mil between the factory stuff and then a whole strip of 80 over everything. Also not shown is the fuel fill panel area on the left was pretty loud so that got the 80 and Pro also. Also did the rear door some more.

I'll be doing the passenger door with the 3.5 install ASAP and the rear doors eventually. Just the one door and back done made a very noticeable difference. I'm probably going to leave the floor under the seats alone for now and use the left over on my girlfriends Forester and it's also pretty loud and she couldn't believe the difference it made in the Rav.

As for the tweeter mounts I'd totally sell sets. I'm printing them out of carbon filled PETG for the stiffness and temp resistance and they are 8 hours of printer time so $20 a set plus shipping ($8 USPS flat rate box?) and they are yours. I know they will fit the Infinitys I used and probably both versions of JBL available too. I used the RED WOLF adapters off Amazon and they fit perfect.
Click to expand...
those adapters turned out really sharp! I i would definitely be interested for a set. just starting to research upgrades on my sons '07 for his 18th birthday and was already thinking along these lines, just w/o a 3d printer. or printing skillz! :rolleyes::)

contact me and we'll work something out.
 
#20 ·
BeatupVR4 said:
Finally able to get some more time into this. On like the 5th print I finally got the driver centered in the stock grill as much as possible and still have the beefiest mount and still be able to fit the door panel back on.

8 hours and I'll have the final version pair.

View attachment 204594

To update a previous comment about tuning out resonance it ends up that was the stock JBL woofer. I had the "tweeter" disconnected for a few days and the resonance was still there. Apparently the JBL woofer gets really pissed without the door panel on.

I'll update with final pictures but I'm confident in these so if anyone is interested in a set feel free to PM me. Hopefully will get them wrapped up this weekend but there's some rain on the forecast and I'm waiting on one more pack of sound deadening.
Click to expand...
I am definitely going to take you up on the offer to PM you about those prints! They came out great
 
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