[Ajax]

Interesting post, and great photos and information. I used to have the "death rattle" at start up on my 07 V6. I now have 164000 miles and it barely ever happens anymore. I have used Mobil 1 synthetic oil since the beginning. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. I also live in Florida, so never any super cold starts. I just don't worry about it anymore. Maybe the parts "wore in?" At any rate, I am keeping this vehicle until it dies. Not much out there I like right now.

Equally interesting, do you remember what the mileage was when the rattle improved?

 

[renns]

Just joined here to thank OP for his writeup. I just finished the job on a 2011 Venza with 2.7l 4-cylinder, which is the same basic process. My vehicle has slowly been getting louder, and has about 160,000 km. I ordered the parts needed (ref. TSB in first post for part numbers) from toyotapartsdirect.ca, with a total price including shipping of just under $300. The offending 'Camshaft Timing Gear Assembly' was $144 Cdn.

Here's a couple thoughts:
1.) That tensioner is a pain to deal with. A short piece of 1/8" diameter wire, or equivalent, will work nicely as a lock pin. I ended up using a roofing nail for the job. It was a snug fit, and held the tensioner nicely.
2.) Watch that tensioner gasket! Mine came off on removal of the tensioner, and ended up part way down in the sump. I was able to snag it with a magnet and extract it (gasket has steel core). Without that option, I could have been really in trouble.
3.) A bungee cord around the latch loop on the hood down to the timing chain worked well to keep the chain tight while swapping gear assemblies.

Total time was about 4 hrs including tool cleanup. After hand-cranking the engine through a couple revs', I put the key in, and it started up great, with no noise. Hopefully future cold-starts remain silent as well.

 

[Rav-O-Matic]

Interesting post, and great photos and information. I used to have the "death rattle" at start up on my 07 V6. I now have 164000 miles and it barely ever happens anymore. I have used Mobil 1 synthetic oil since the beginning. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. I also live in Florida, so never any super cold starts. I just don't worry about it anymore. Maybe the parts "wore in?" At any rate, I am keeping this vehicle until it dies. Not much out there I like right now.

I also used to have the rattle on my 2007 v6 with 203k miles. But after a couple times using seafoam to flush the engine oil before oil changes it is now completely gone. Now more than 6 months have gone by with the rattle.

 

[montyskyman]

I have a 2011 Rav4, 2.5L 4Cyl with the "Death Rattle" during startup. My question?
Is there a long term consequence. Or will it happily rattle on to the end of the normal engine life.
Does anyone have a drawing of what this gear internal mechanism looks like?

 

[Nick1729]

Tell me please, how badly did I screw up???
I started with the idea that I will remove the camshafts one by one. Did not work. The timing chain is hard and does not allow to extract them. Then I removed all the bolts on the front cover to access the crankshaft gear. The cover can not come out. Seems, that I need to extract the engine from the car...

 

[jbwood5]

I had to remove one cross brace at the bottom of the cover and finally got it out by wiggling it around about 15 different ways. I was never able to get it back in until I removed the water pump. Best to reattach the front cover and drain your coolant so that none will get in the oil pan. Then remove the water pump. After you are done with everything you planned to do behind the cover, and cleaned up everything, do a couple of dry run installations. It can be tough to line up the flats of the oil pump. It is really frustrating but that cover can not be tilted when trying to line it up. After you're confident you can get the cover back on and have every mating surface clean, then apply your JV8 sealant. I know what you are going through. Note that you can also get a slight amount of up and down movement of the engine with a protective block of wood and a jack on the oil pan. Might as well replace the water pump if it has never been changed. I did this job on my 2009, 2.5 so I know it can be done, but a bit tough and requires a bit of patience. Good luck and give us a report.

 

[Nick1729]

Thank you so much for the quick response. I was ready to give up and called shops. No one will take it.
I thaught I may have to extract the engine. And then it occurred to me, I can suspend the engine from a crane, and drop the subframe only. And then I saw the short piece of subframe, that is held by 4 big bolts. Let see...

 

[Nick1729]

I have the camshafts on the table. The Intake VVT528 was unlocked. Installed the new sprocket, torqued, locked.
Currently trying to unlock the exhaust VVT520. Procedure with the electric tape and compressed air does not do the trick. No click, no free rotation. Any idea?

 

[jbwood5]

I never messed with exhaust sprocket but if it is anything like the intake sprocket, you might be able to use the method I described earlier in this thread. That requires that the sprocket be off the vehicle and you have to come up with something that just fits snugly in the back of the sprocket. I can say that once the internal pin is compressed, the sprocket turns very easily.

 

[Nick1729]

I took apart the old exhaust gear VVT520 aka 917-259. Angle-grinder-ed the bolts 2 flat sides, vise-grips. On the outside there is a big black hard torsion spring. It is easy to remove it with a large flat screwdriver. On the inside there are 4 chambers, not 3, sealed with composite material vanes, just like vacuum pumps. From what I understand, the spring is pushing the gears to the lock position, this is why even if unlocked, I can not turn it to unlock. I noticed, that the central bolt to the shaft holds the central part of the mechanism only. (Same as the intake.) So: Why on earth should we play the game of compressed air, unlock, torque, lock? We are torque-ing only the CENTRAL piece of the mechanism. The status of the rest is irrelevant-in my opinion! Alternatively, I can release the big black spring, unlock with compressed air, then torque, then attach the tail of the spring, which will lock the gear. Any idea?

 

[Nick1729]

Removed the big spring. Applied air pressure. Can hear the lock pin click inside. The gears do not turn either way. (Original Toyota gear).

 

[jbwood5]

Maybe that sprocket is bad? I really can't offer any opinions, but I can say that I had trouble getting the chain links all lined up until I had the sprockets set up right. I kept coming out with 1/2 link off. The problem is it has been a while ago and I can't remember if the chain goes on with the sprockets locked or unlocked. Hopefully someone here will know. 1/2 link off is no good because you really don't know which side of the tooth it should be on. You might be exactly on or you might be 1 tooth off. The last thing you want is to end up off 1 tooth and have to tear down and reseal the front (massive work). You may need to research this or talk to a Toyota tech that has done this a few times. These VVT setups certainly add a degree of complication to getting the timing set up correctly.

 

[montyskyman]

						Has anybody heard of any engine failures caused by this "Death Rattle" during startup? 2011 Rav4 2.5 4 cyl. 87000 miles. I bought used at 40000 and haven't noticed any changes in the noise during startup.. At first I thought it was the timing chain tensioner, which I've experienced with other chain driven camshafts in other vehicles.. Never experienced a failure.. Any ideas out there??
						I have a 2011 Rav4, 2.5L 4Cyl with the "Death Rattle" during startup. My question? Is there a long term consequence. Or will it happily rattle on to the end of the normal engine life. Does anyone have a drawing of what this gear internal mechanism looks like?

 

[Nick1729]

This is what we are talking about. I have this rattle for a year or so. Discovered, TSB0041-13. Some ppl say, the engine will fail anytime soon. Then I discovered some posts, you can drive forever. 180,000. Anyway, I am at the middle of the swamp. No one can EXPLAIN why you should unlock-torque-lock the mechanism.
Because, the central part of this mechanism, is the only element that connects to the camshaft. Why the positions of the other elements should matter? They do not touch the shaft. They do not know if the shaft is connected, bolted or tightened???

 

[jbwood5]

This is what we are talking about. I have this rattle for a year or so. Discovered, TSB0041-13. Some ppl say, the engine will fail anytime soon. Then I discovered some posts, you can drive forever. 180,000. Anyway, I am at the middle of the swamp. No one can EXPLAIN why you should unlock-torque-lock the mechanism.
Because, the central part of this mechanism, is the only element that connects to the camshaft. Why the positions of the other elements should matter? They do not touch the shaft. They do not know if the shaft is connected, bolted or tightened???

My understanding is that if you have the sprocket in the locked position and then torqued the camshaft bolt, the locating pin on the cam may not line up with the hole in the sprocket which could cause potential damage to either or both the cam and sprocket. This is particularly important when replacing the intake sprocket with the chain still in-place (per the TSB). You are somewhat blind to matching the hole to the pin and with the chain in the way, it is really difficult to feel the sprocket engage the pin. However, if you have the chain off, you can probably get a good feel for the pin going into the hole. I honestly think you will be OK if you can successfully mate the sprocket to the cam whether it is locked or unlocked. Once you get the chain on with all marks lined up and tensioner properly engaged but sprocket bolts a little more than finger tight, rotate the crank bolt turn the engine. Take a straight edge across the top of the two sprockets to insure they are square and not cocked. Check it at different positions. Any offset or wobble may mean that the pin from the cam is not in the hole. If everything checks out, torque the cam bolts. Note that you may never get the marks to line up again until you do many revolutions of the engine. This is really the critical part that you need to get right so you don't ruin your engine. Whatever you do, don't put the front cover on until you are confident that all the bright chain links were initially lined up with the marks on the sprockets and the tensioner is engaged. That is also very critical. I think you will get it from here!! Feel free to ask any questions. I'll check the board when I get a chance.

 

[Nick1729]

Dear JBWood5, Thank you SO MUCH for your help and personal concern. I want to buy you a beer! Yes, I am aware about all details you mentioned. I had the camshafts on the table and I know the proper hole for the camshaft pin. I had the timing chain cover removed, and I was very careful about TDC on the shaft, and the proper positioning of the 3 gold links of the chain. My chain is so tight, so little slack, I had to remove the fixed chain guide. I have no idea how people work without removing timing chain cover. (BTW: to remove the timing chain cover, you need to remove a section of the subframe and drop the cover down.) Anyway, when I installed the chain, and placed tensioner, I cranked the mainshaft 5-10 times (no sparkplugs) to make sure there is no interferences. And the chain is positioned properly on the slides, etc.

 

[Nick1729]

TSB-0041-13. 20200816. FINAL. Dear Mr. JBWood5 and all enthusiasts, friends and amateurs! Just finished the replacement of my VVTi (intake and exhaust) for 2010 RAV4, 2AR-FE. I resolved my questions, doubts, hesitations, this is what I learned. There is abundant information on the internet about the lock-unlock procedure on the intake side (Rockauto, SMP, VVT528, original Toyota). My new VVT528 came unlocked. I torqued the bolt to 63 ft.lb, and then turned it to the "lock" position. There is no information on the exhaust (SMP VVT520, also Toyota). The VVT520 has an external torsion spring. I released the tension of the spring, and tried to unlock it with compressed air several times and failed. I could hear the pin release "click" inside, but the gears did not move CW nor CCW. Then I took apart the old VVT520. The only part of the gear that touches the camshaft is the central element. The drum and the two bases of the cylinder do not. Therefore, IMHO, the "lock" or "unlock" status of the mechanism is not relevant for tightening the bolt! Just torque it to 63 ft.lb. Same on the intake side. Why do they have the "unlock" position then? Here is, again IMHO. The timing chain is very short every mm is important. In order to have enough slack to slide the mainshaft gear onto cranckshaft, I had to remove the both chain guides and stretch the top section of the chain between the two camshaft gears. I used two 17-mm wrenches, solid wire, strong rubber and imagination. The wrench on the exhaust pulls clockwise (right), the wrench on the intake pulls CCW (left), the chain is straight, and the two gold links are at the TDS positions. When intake camshaft is at TDS it pushes down on the valves and tends to slip left or right. This is why Toyota invented the "unlock", to avoid the two wrenches game. The unlock allows for the camshaft to go 10 deg CW, while the gear wheel and the whole mechanism to go 10 deg CCW, to stretch the chain easily. After the chain is secured in place, and two guard rails fixed, and the tensioner is activated, then grip the camshaft with a 24-mm wrench and turn it to "lock". I can make a short video of the exhaust VVT520, to show the internal elements, if there is interest. My RAV4 runs smooth. No more "death rattle at cold start". Regards, Nick

 

[jbwood5]

Congrats on a job well done! Also, thanks for the report. Were you able to get the front cover on without messing up any sealant? For my RAV it was a very tight fit and tough to avoid smearing any sealant out of the way. I've worked on about a dozen FWD of different makes over the years with belts and chains but this was the first VVT setup. I'm glad to hear you got it back and running good. I figure you saved yourself close to $1.5K.

 

[Nick1729]

Were you able to get the front cover on without messing up any sealant?

Dear John, I removed 2 engine mounts, the passanger and the radiator side. Jack under the oil pan. I removed a section of the subframe. 4 bolts, 17 mm heads. This allowed the cover out. A tricky part is that the mainshaft drives the oil pump directly. So, installation of the cover should be very slow and very gentle. First, I had a dry-run. No timing chain, no silicon. It worked OK. Then for final, I had my daughter direct the top, I worked on the bottom. I pushed very gentle and did not allow any forceful movement. Force will immediately cause jamming. I applied very thin layer of black max oil resistance gasket forming compound on both the engine block and on the lid. Then I tightened the bolts all of them, little by little, only 90 deg turns each. This way the cover was driven square and did not jam. Regards, NT

 

[Nick1729]

Dear Colleagues and Friends, I just uploaded my own video related to the topic.