[Myxalplyx]

Oh No's

Looks like I pulled the plug on this. MonkeyWrench Racing has agreed to remove the supercharger kit off of their V6 RAV4 and sell that kit to me. I wanted something that would be plug-n-play. Their RAV4 is stock, with stock exhaust piping, etc. The intercooler they are removing has already been modified to fit in the RAV4's engine bay so everything will just be a straight-forward install. The intercooler is non-functioning in their RAV4 though. I don't plan on leaving it that way.....ala WRX. I could not pass this up.

I've already discussed the reflashing of an ECU by R9K, despite it not being needed. I may have some adjustments made to fueling (with slightly larger fuel injectors.....from TRD Aurion) and ignition. I am awaiting pricing on installation from my local shop.

So....there it is. I will post more as more info comes, including pics of the kit after it arrives. >

 

[Myxalplyx]

Spy Photos

Here are some early spy photos of the kit on MonkeyWrench's 2006 RAV4 V6.

I asked if they could send me the photos so I can send them to my mechanic and you guys, in case your interested.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Will your hood mod allow room for the intercooler, which should add some more power?

Looks like they cut about 5 rows out of the intercooler and welded it back up.

They did! This was the only way to get this intercooler to fit under the hood for the RAV4. This was the reason I wanted the kit that they had already modified. The hood mod would allow air to the intercooler BUT I may not be going that route. The shop I plan on having it installed at discussed making piping and using a front mount intercooler. This actually makes sense so this is the route I plan on looking to after getting the kit. The location of the top mount is right over the heat generated from the engine/tranny. It can work but there's no doubt a front mount location would be better. Will see! If that is the case, this intercooler may be for sale.

Oh and Blogson, they had this installed on a stock RAV4, with stock exhaust. The fuel was spot on for that. If you have an aftermarket exhaust, you may run on the lean side. ECU reflashing and/or aftermarket injectors would probably be better in this case.

 

[Myxalplyx]

There's no shame in grafting on a Subie WRX hood scoop for the intercooler . . . .:mrgreen:

There's a little bit a shame. :lol: I love Subarus though.
My mechanic mentioned making a front mount. When ready for installation, this is something we will discuss but if doable, chances are a front mount will be the route I take.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Teaser video of the same kit for the Vellfire/Alphard.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Here is another source for the supercharger kit.

https://www.nengun.com/hks/gt-supercharger-complete-kit-alphard-veilfire

$2709.29 out the door.

 

[Myxalplyx]

It has arrived

Please be aware that the supercharger kit instructions is in Japanese.

To be continued..........................

 

[Myxalplyx]

Congrats that the kit has arrived. Is your Japanese up to the task of deciphering the instructions? Perhaps the previous owner can be of help. Keep us posted . . .

There are a lot of pics inside the manual. People can use apps on Androids and such to translate the words. My mechanic is pretty good either way. It won't be an issue. :lol:

 

[Myxalplyx]

Self Note #1

Disregard this post. I post sometimes in my own threads to remind myself of things....for informational purposes. Was thinking about bypassing the intercooler altogether and searched how much heat could be made by the supercharger.

Heat Made By The Supercharger

To See just how much heat is generated by 1 PSI of boost we can use the following formula:

(PR0.28 x Tabs) - Tabs

Where

PR = Pressure Ratio

Tabs = Ambient Temperature on the absolute scale. ( For example on a sunny day in the UK, we could assume 70oF = 70o + 460o = 530o Absolute.)

Another way of expressing this formula would be:

(PR0.28-1) x Tabs

So using this formula we can work out how much 1 psi of boost will raise the temperature at an ambient temperature of 70oF



Note: 14.7psi absolute = Atmospheric pressure at sea level

So we have a figure of 9.857o absolute as an ideal temperature gain for 1 psi at an ambient temperature of 70oF. But this does not take into account the efficiency of the supercharger. So to get the REAL temperature gain, we take the ideal temperature gain divided by the thermal efficiency of the supercharger.

So for a Centrifugal Supercharger such as the Rotrex with a typical thermal efficiency of 75% the Real temperature gain for 1 psi of boost would be:



This is a typical figure to give an idea of the temperatures that can be reached. The Actual temperature gain per psi decreases with boost pressure because of the 0.28 exponent in the formula and the fact that the superchargers efficiency is not linear. For example the temperature gain per psi at 15 psi is about two thirds of the gain at 1 psi boost.

But even taking this into account you can see that with a typical setup producing 10 psi of boost you could easily have a temperature rise in excess of 120oF and that's above what you would see on a normally aspirated engine with all other components being equal.

From here ~~> Heat made by the supercharger.



Supercharger is an HKS GTS7040 model. Link to the compressor map here ~~> HKS GT Supercharger Specification



The kit does not include the oil needed for the supercharger itself. It is a rotrex type oil (Per Monkeywrench Racing). Manual shows two types in Japanese. Will decipher when I get home and post.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Intercooled vs Non-Intercooled

Still doing research as usual.

Was looking for a chart on intercooled vs Non-Intercooled. Came across this link to info from Corky Bells book called Supercharging ~~> Intercooled vs Non-Intercooled

Since this is a centrifugal supercharger, there is a chart I am looking at on this link. It is very interesting to compare what you'd make at the same boost intercooled vs non-intercooled. Of course $$$ is still trying to convince me to go non-intercooled for now but research tells me hell no. Pretty exciting stuff so I wanted to share. Just in case you may be considering going non-intercooled in any application.

The dyno number may be as low as it is at the Monkeywrench site is because not only is it non-intercooled but it's sitting on top of the engine, absorbing all of the engine's heat. As well as getting the radiator fan heat blown onto it. Making it essentially an inter-heater.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Is there literature on intercoolers mounted outside the engine compartment? Given the comprehensibility of air, I think it would lower efficiency at the intake. Dunno. Worth looking into?
How about a water cooled intercooler? A friend of mine has a Dodge Challenger in which the supercharger is water cooled with its own radiator. Wicked!

Water-to-Air is worth looking into. I discussed this with the shop that would be working on my car. I have an old air-water intercooler in my garage that I was going to use on an old Subaru project back in the day. Never did use it. The shop mechanic stated that the air-to-air would be much simpler to setup and the air-to-water intercooler is best used on a track, where you can apply dry ice to the tank. I like simplicity so.

Intercooling is key! Corky Bell's books are awesome!
Now, this hardware and plumbing aside, what are the software options available? The stock ECU will likely have very limited ability to adjust fueling and timing based on just O2 sensors, IAT sensor and knock sensor. Even though the 2GR-FE has forged crank and con-rods, ECU remap will be of ultimate importance.
Vasil

A couple of things around this. You are correct on saying that the stock ECU is limited. I have been asking around about this kit on forums, Youtube, etc. I have gotten in touch with a gentleman who has this kit installed on his Toyota Sienna. Exact same kit. He knows of two other Sienna owners that has this same kit. He shared some interesting information with me earlier today.
1) The kit runs 'ok' without any tuning being done on it. Ok meaning that air/fuel ratios will seem to be ok for the most part and no drivability issues.
2) The kit will run better with some type of engine management as you stated.

The supercharged Sienna guy (SSG) said that he has his Sienna tuned with an HKS Fcon and said he can feel that his car has more power. He talked one of the other supercharged Sienna guys to get an HKS Fcon for his. This other guy would not get it at first because his air/fuel ratios were good but he went ahead with the purchase anyway. His supercharged dyno was 260whp. After using the HKS Fcon to tune his supercharged Sienna, he had 295whp. Both of these setups are with the top mounted intercooler utilizing a forward facing funnel setup that comes with the kit. Apparently the Sienna has the space to use this. So, yes, the HKS Fcon is one option.

I am going to go with having my stock ECU reflashed by R9K tuning, based on how my stock ECU reacts with the kit. I have faith that he'll do a good job so we'll see how that goes.

You can see a little bit of discussion about this on the Siennachat forum ~~> Supercharged Sienna
The guy I was talking to about this is not on the forum though but the two other guys I believe are. I am 'Myxalplyx' on there as well. I just joined! :smile

 

[Myxalplyx]

295 at the wheels from a 3.5L supercharged engine is a joke. You can get that pretty much from most modern 2L 4-banger engines out of the factory. I don't mean to be abrasive, I am just trying to bring in some realism here.

No problem! I am not one to try to speak on things I am still learning about (Forever learning about actually). I will be more specific. This kit is running at 5.5psi of boost. Most modern day 2L 4-banger engines out of the factory will pretty much make 295whp, at the same boost (Supercharged or Turbo for that matter), with an automatic transmission and AWD. Is this what you are saying? At least 295whp!!!
Could you name a few? I can't name any off the top of my head.

There is a lot more to FI tuning than just getting the Air-To-Fuel ratio done. Ignition timing, VVT-i, cooling, fuel pressure, exhaust back pressure, etc play important parts of how an engine runs and makes power. I fear that a simple reflash of the ECU will only get you so far. ...possibly not even half way there.

I believe we are both saying the same thing here. Except for the 'simple reflash' part. I don't know everything R9K can change but the ignition timing, fueling, throttle response and VVT-i is a start. He's working to try to raise the rpm shift point as I type this. I have the exhaust taken care off. Fuel pressure will be taken care of (Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator installed...may be only temporary) and possibly larger fuel injectors (TRD Aurion, controlled by R9K reflash). I even have the option to use HKS Fcon. Cooling....I will be utilizing a front mount intercooler if possible. We will review this after the bumper has been removed.

I don't mean to discourage you. Not at all. I am very curious about this kit myself, but I just don't see all the pieces there yet. I guess my point is that the hardware kit is just the start of this quest and that you should be prepared to invest a lot more time and money chasing issues and problems.

I am never prepared for these things and you are right. I tend to go with the flow to wherever it takes me. THIS is something I have been wanting to do for a long time on this vehicle. The opportunity presented itself and I just couldn't let it pass. :smile

 

[Myxalplyx]

Oh man! And you described your throttle response as "cartoonish" now.

Your mechanic said you're better off mounting the intercooler up front, right? So, are you going to use the same cooler, or get another one?

Sorry Moon! I didn't answer your question. I will be getting another one if there is enough space for it.
And the cartoonish throttle response is from the Sprintbooster. The lightweight wheels helps some as well. Probably the Maxbore throttle body to a lesser extent...maybe.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Here are some early spy photos. Will add explanation to pics as the day goes on. The colder spark plugs and the HKS supercharger itself has been installed. No issues from this. My mechanic had to use an app to convert the instructions in the HKS manual from Japanese to English but you can figure out what's what from looking at the picture and trying to translate what you can.

This is an up close picture of the supercharger. It is AN HKS GTS7030 140188 model.

A view of the engine bay looking from the passenger side. You can see that the ECU on the driver's side wall is in a slightly different location. This is to make way for the piping that be routed to the drivers side wheel well and foglight area. The one pipe you see is the piping that goes to the intake manifold. The remaining piping is on it's way and will be fabricated and/or welded to fit. The piping from the intake filter to the supercharger, the supercharger to the intercooler and the intercooler back to the intake manifold will all be going to and coming from the passenger side area. Stay tuned for the finished product.

The supercharger cooler is on top and the transmission cooler (bigger unit) is on the bottom. Was looking to put a front mount intercooler here but there is only about 3" of space between the radiator and the front bumper beam. Also, both of these would have had to be moved to another location. So to keep things simple, it was decided that the intercooler be moved to the driver's side wheel well area.

This is the same top mount intercooler that comes with the HKS supercharger kit. This particular intercooler was already modified to fit Monkeywrench Racing's stock RAV4. So it is a little smaller than the intercooler that comes with the kit. This kit is top mounted (meaning on top of the engine) but heat rises from the engine. And there is no way to get cool air to it on top of the engine (Outside of a hood scoop). So my shop mechanic thought it would be good to put the intercooler in the wheel well area (Inside the mudguard/shield). Toyota Supras have their intercooler situated this way, side mount. See a video example here of the Toyota Supra's side mount intercooler ~~>

There is plenty of space for it in this location and it's easy to mount here. There will be a hole on the backside of the intercooler for the air to go through it and come back out. We talked about two future modifications that could be done once this is finished. He knows of a fan that can be installed the whole width of the intercooler in this location to draw air to it and through it. Also, custom ducting can be made up to isolate the air in this area to force all of it through the intercooler and out the backside. If this route is decided upon in the future, I'll update this thread with information and pics.

Here is just a full shot of the front of the RAV4 with the bumper off. More to come.....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


ETA for this is sometime next week. The Wideband O2 sensor is supposed to come in today and will be installed on the exhaust header that is on the front of the car. It needs to be installed upstream of the catalytic converter to work properly. The exhaust header coming down near the firewall has the cat converter right off the exhaust manifold so this seems like the best place to put this wideband at for now. It's just a tool to use. Ideally, you want to measure the combined O2 coming from all the six cylinders but before the cat converters. This will have to do.

Also, the HKS supercharger kit has the maf sensor installed between the air filter and the supercharger. This does measure the intake air temperature that is benig pulled through the air filter however my mechanic and I agreed that the most ideal location for the maf sensor would be between the intercooler and the intake manifold. This way, you are measuring the air that is entering your engine, since this air is being heated up by the supercharger then cooled by the intercooler. I was considered that the reading of the maf and the maf sensor itself could be affected by the boost pressure from the supercharger but my mechanic doesn't think that is a concern. So, this will be another modification from what you typically see.

And thanks again to Moondogg and Techsmrt for their intake insulation for cooler temp posts in another thread. The piping from the supercharger to the intercooler will be insulated. I will be considering insulating both the intake to the supercharger as well as the piping from the outlet of the intercooler to the engine.

And lastly, R9K has just finished the first reflash of the ECU for supercharger duties. This will be swapped back in and installed when the supercharger kit is ready. I can drive with the ECU that is in there now but the R9K ECU tuning is being modified to support the kit. It's in beta so it may have to be tweaked a little depending on what data I am able to get from running with the kit.


That's all for now. :wink

 

[Myxalplyx]

[emoji857]drool!! Soo jealous!!

Will be the intercooler be functional below the headlight? What was the determining factor to it location?

Not pretty...

The mechanic mentioned that Toyota Supras had good success with SMIC (Side Mount Intercoolers). So with this and the limited space as a front mount was the deciding factor. The crash bar would've had to be either removed or modified for a front mount to fit and my transmission/supercharger coolers relocated. I didn't want to tamper with the crash bar because my wife drives this on occasions. :crying And safety reasons of course.

A 2nd reason why I like the side mount is that in its location, it is still (I think) considered a 'high pressure area'. Also, the area just behind it to the wheel well is considered a low pressure area. So high pressure air to get to it (Through the lower foglight area) and the lower pressure behind it to help suck air through it.

Those are some great pics you took. That merge between the two headers is what I especially didn't like. That's why I opted to elminate it.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Awesome addition to your post! Were you able to grab those higher cc injectors from the Supercharged Aurion or do you think the stock injectors will be ok and won't be maxing them out? Is R9K adding these into your tune? I suppose if you start at a lower boost/psi you could work up to a point of maxing them out before needing the others. Were you able to get good feedback from the Supercharged Tundra owners?

Since the Sienna guys are able to run safely with their stock injectors with the Fcon, I am opting to stick with the stock fuel injectors for now and see if they will need to be upgraded with what I have. R9K has made some adjustments with fueling/ignition and I'll be testing it out to see how it goes. I can't go into too much detail on what he has changed and why for now. :wink The kit is 5.5psi so nothing crazy. Worst comes to worst, I will order up the MonkeyWrench Racing's 525cc injectors ~~> Injectors

I haven't check the Tundra forums tonight but one guy mentioned he was able to run safely at 11.5 air fuel ratio without any knocking issues. This wasn't on purpose as his tune had his air/fuel ratios sometimes at 10.5 (He was happy there) and other times at 12.5 (Not so happy). But on average he was at 11.5 and no knocking. Another member stated his air/fuel ratio would go up to 11.0 then 11.5 and then knock. Fuel would dump and he'd be at 10.5 air/fuel ratio. His Tundra was happy there supercharged. He also mentioned that his ignition timing was set at 18 degrees at WOT on the top end. Neither of them mentioned if they were intercooled or not. The one HKS Sienna guy has no idea what is ignition timing or air/fuel ratio is set at.

Myxalplyx, your build is coming along B-E-A-UTIFULLY, and fast! I really like the side mount intercooler as it lets you keep your sleeper status.What kind of tubing is your mechanic using for the intake tubes? Will you still have a somewhat tapered design?

Not sure to be honest on what kind of tubing will be used. I know space will be tight though. I mentioned I wanted the biggest intake piping and biggest air filter that can fit on it. I want it to be as free flowing as possible from the air filter to the supercharger. I forgot to mention that the air filter will be mounted in or very close to the foglight location it is in now. I have seen an HKS kit or two have the intake air filter right at the firewall in the engine bay. ????? I absolutely do not want that. Keep it cool as much as it can without totally relying on the intercooler. I think that makes sense. So will 99.99% follow you your lead in wrapping this from the filter to the supercharger itself.

 

[Myxalplyx]

Updates!? Any more photos or videos?

No new news yet. Was waiting to call the shop tomorrow (Once a week).

 

[Myxalplyx]

You have more patience than I do..

Speaking of patience, no news. Car is still in the same state as it was last week. All the piping has arrived to complete the install. A Nissan GTR that was being worked on is being finished up today and the shop owner is getting back on my car. It's not going to be until as at least next week sometime. Maybe!

 

[Myxalplyx]

Very interesting thread!


A few years ago, I swapped a 2.7L Tacoma engine in my old AE86 Corolla. I later installed a TRD supercharger boosting 10 PSI. Because the S/C was taking place of the intake manifold, the throttle-body was mounted before the S/C. So there was no possibility to install a conventionnal intercooler. So I used water-meth injection to cool the air intake charge. The water-meth mist was passing through the rotors to mix perfectly with the air intake. It made a considerable difference. After some hard pulls, the S/C temp lowered an average of 22-23C (71-73F).

That's a very cool setup. Literally! Thanks for sharing.:thumbs_up: