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2011 Rav4 - 175k miles - transmission fluids - flush, exchange or top-up

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sunset73

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
In another thread on engine oil, I mentioned that I purchased a 2011 Rav4 with 175k miles. I assume that its transmission fluids and other fluids have not been replaced.

My mechanic (extremely reliable and honest), says transmission fluid flush is unnecessary, and moreover dangerous. His argument is that with high miles, and lot of gunk and debris is in between the gear cogs, and it is this debris that is holding the gear together. If the transmission is flushed, he claims that with the debris gone, the gears could start slipping. He just advocates topping up transmission fluid periodically.

1. Should I go with my mechanic and just top up the fluid
2. Do a fluid exchange
3. or Do a transmission flush

For options 2 or 3, I will have to sneak off to another mechanic or chain-shop.

Also, what about other fluids such as differential and engine coolant? My mechanic says to just top them up.

Thank you in advance.
 
#3 ·
With the coolant and diff oils, I would change as follows:

Diff oil - every 30k miles unless you tow, then half that
Engine oil/filter - every 5 to 7k miles
Coolant - every 4 years (for corrosion inhibitors)
Brake fluid - every 4 years

This is just my 2p worth BTW
 
#4 ·
sunset73 said:
In another thread on engine oil, I mentioned that I purchased a 2011 Rav4 with 175k miles. I assume that its transmission fluids and other fluids have not been replaced.

My mechanic (extremely reliable and honest), says transmission fluid flush is unnecessary, and moreover dangerous. His argument is that with high miles, and lot of gunk and debris is in between the gear cogs, and it is this debris that is holding the gear together. If the transmission is flushed, he claims that with the debris gone, the gears could start slipping. He just advocates topping up transmission fluid periodically.

1. Should I go with my mechanic and just top up the fluid
2. Do a fluid exchange
3. or Do a transmission flush

For options 2 or 3, I will have to sneak off to another mechanic or chain-shop.

Also, what about other fluids such as differential and engine coolant? My mechanic says to just top them up.

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
The only way to know for sure if it is risky to do a flush is drop the transmission pan and see what it looks like inside. If you see the fluid is thick and gunky then for sure do not do a flush. A return line flush is the way to go if you decide to do one instead of using those machine flusher. Coolant should be replaced at around 100,000 miles or 10 years which every comes first. Then every 3 or 4 years change the coolant. Just remember that coolant gets acidic over time which eats the seal. Just topping coolant will lead to problems if that is what you want. If you have a FWD the differential is shared in the transmission as one unit. If you have 4WD you have a front transfer case and a rear differential. Those oil should be changed at around 30,000 miles but not more than 60,000 miles. You should use synthetic gear oil which does not cost that much since you only need a quart to do both.
 
#6 ·
Recently purchased a 2011 with 190k miles. Transmission fluid was changed by prior owners at 70k and 135k. Did a bunch of DIY maintenance Have done a 3x drain and fill with Toyota WS a week apart. The fluid initially came out black, but has turned a bit of red after the third drain. Didn’t do a pan drop to change the filter, etc. shifts are smooth as ever.
Next step is a D&F for the transfer case and rear diff fluid. Replaced the Spark plugs with OEM Denso, this definitely solved an awful vibration through the entire car when at a red or stop light with the foot on the brake. Replaced front pads and rotors with OEM, greased caliper pins which were well seized in. Braking is so much better now. Changed engine air filter. Changed engine oil with Mobil 1 OW20 and Toyota OEM filter. Replaced headlight bulbs with 9012s which give off much more light, had to trim one of the tabs to match the 9006s. Replaced the windshield which appeared sandblasted after 190k prior miles - huge improvement in night visibility. Replaced battery since the prior one was on for past 5 years, and rather play it safe.
 
#9 ·
ravenuer said:
Doji: sounds like you've covered all the bases. It just seems odd the fluid was black after being changed at 70 & 135k. Good luck with it.
Click to expand...
The first tranny oil change coming out black means very old worn ATF. Doing a return line flush will replace all the old fluid with brand new ATF.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Plan to drop the filter and do a drain and fill through the cooler lines in spring. This gives the transmission time to adjust to the slightest newer fluid in there now. It still shifts super smooth. Just had our first snowfall of the season and the RAV4 handled fantastic. Am on a steep hill and the diff lock definitely helps. New transfer fluid and rear diff fluid was done, the prior fluid was quite dark. Previous mechanic reversed the drain and fill bolt - careless. Still the magnetic plug at the top managed to catch the very fine particles - nothing out of the ordinary.

Did an engine flush with Liqui Moly. The current engine oil was there for 1500 miles. 15 mins of idling and it came out black. Idle appears a bit smoother and quieter. Did nothing to help the start up VVTi rattle though 😞
Next step is throttle body clean.
 
#11 ·
It’s been 2.5 months and having been through 5 gradual drain and fills of the ATF, the fluid is starting to show a hint of pink / red. The shifting is much smoother for sure. Fingers crossed. Also cleaned the throttle body and this has eliminated any occasional vibration at idle when in drive. For folks that change a battery, highly recommend the throttle body clean if it’s never been done. Did a coolant change as well.
Unfortunately, the engine does consume some oil and there was no way to tell until a few thousand miles were put in. I plan to do a few more oil changes at the 2k mark to see if synthetic might help, since the oil is turning dark quickly. Either the oil is doing some cleaning or there is a fair amount of blow by. Next step is a piston soak with Berryman B12 in the summer.
 
#12 ·
Doji said:
It’s been 2.5 months and having been through 5 gradual drain and fills of the ATF, the fluid is starting to show a hint of pink / red. The shifting is much smoother for sure. Fingers crossed. Also cleaned the throttle body and this has eliminated any occasional vibration at idle when in drive. For folks that change a battery, highly recommend the throttle body clean if it’s never been done. Did a coolant change as well.
Unfortunately, the engine does consume some oil and there was no way to tell until a few thousand miles were put in. I plan to do a few more oil changes at the 2k mark to see if synthetic might help, since the oil is turning dark quickly. Either the oil is doing some cleaning or there is a fair amount of blow by. Next step is a piston soak with Berryman B12 in the summer.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the transmission should be fine. With 200k, it's normal for the engine to use some oil. I'm not sure if using synthetic oil would help as it tends to be thinner than regular oil. I would go with a slightly thicker dino oil.
 
#13 ·
It’s got the VVTi rattle at start so with the 0W20, am hoping the thinner oil gets up there quicker and tame the rattle quickly at start. Also the synthetic for me is cheaper than dino oil when it goes on sale. I have a large stash of this synthetic since I have another Toyota and Lexus in the driveway 😀
 
#14 ·
Doji said:
It’s got the VVTi rattle at start so with the 0W20, am hoping the thinner oil gets up there quicker and tame the rattle quickly at start. Also the synthetic for me is cheaper than dino oil when it goes on sale. I have a large stash of this synthetic since I have another Toyota and Lexus in the driveway 😀
Click to expand...
I had my 2011 rav4 engine rattle at cold start. the only way to fix this is to follow Toyota T-SB-0041-13

 
#15 ·
Another question to drain and fill or not to for ATF on 2011 V6 RAV4 with 231K kilometres.

The transmission fluid was flushed once by the dealer 140,000 km or 6 years ago.

No problem with the transmission other than whine on decelerating that according to TSB from 10 years ago is just an annoying noise and no risk of failure. Otherwise the transmission has a few rough shifts from time to time.

So should I just leave well enough alone and do nothing, or do the three drain and fills some suggest?
 
#16 ·
Powderhound said:
Another question to drain and fill or not to for ATF on 2011 V6 RAV4 with 231K kilometres.

The transmission fluid was flushed once by the dealer 140,000 km or 6 years ago.

No problem with the transmission other than whine on decelerating that according to TSB from 10 years ago is just an annoying noise and no risk of failure. Otherwise the transmission has a few rough shifts from time to time.

So should I just leave well enough alone and do nothing, or do the three drain and fills some suggest?
Click to expand...
I would certainly do one or two D&Rs a few thousand miles apart. I always recommend Toyota WS fluid.
 
#17 ·
I'm the original owner of a 2011 2.5L FWD with 293,000 miles. I do all the maintenance by myself. I never changed the transmission fluid. Did a lot of research on whether or not change it. I decided to leave it alone and keep driving. Fluid level is good. No leaks. Transmission shifts fine. Fluid is dark and gritty. I could be wrong but I DO believe in life-time fluid. Aisin produced tens of millions of automatic transmissions. So did ZF. If there is any evidence that changing fluid extends the life of a transmission, Toyota would list it as a maintenance requirement. My guess is that, changing fluid would do little to improve transmission's lifespan. It only makes you feel good
 
#18 ·
bajiao said:
I'm the original owner of a 2011 2.5L FWD with 293,000 miles. I do all the maintenance by myself. I never changed the transmission fluid. Did a lot of research on whether or not change it. I decided to leave it alone and keep driving. Fluid level is good. No leaks. Transmission shifts fine. Fluid is dark and gritty. I could be wrong but I DO believe in life-time fluid. Aisin produced tens of millions of automatic transmissions. So did ZF. If there is any evidence that changing fluid extends the life of a transmission, Toyota would list it as a maintenance requirement. My guess is that, changing fluid would do little to improve transmission's lifespan. It only makes you feel good
Click to expand...
My guess is that your guess is wrong. Why would Toyota want you to change it when they could expect your car to be towed in for a new transmission? You're just lucky, that's all.
 
#19 ·
bajiao said:
I'm the original owner of a 2011 2.5L FWD with 293,000 miles... My guess is that, changing fluid would do little to improve transmission's lifespan. It only makes you feel good
Click to expand...
I highlighted the fact your vehicle is FWD only, which doesn't need to compensate for the driveshaft and rear differential that would be additional stress load for the transmission. All fluids need some sort of regular maintenance regardless of what the owner's manual states, seems common sense to me. I willingly and happily dropped the pan, changed out the strainer, o-ring, and gasket, then did a return-line flush in my '06 AWD, which was exhibiting shifting ambiguity. It does make me feel good that I spent the time to extend life of the transmission and torque converter.
 
#20 ·
bajiao said:
I'm the original owner of a 2011 2.5L FWD with 293,000 miles. I do all the maintenance by myself. I never changed the transmission fluid. Did a lot of research on whether or not change it. I decided to leave it alone and keep driving. Fluid level is good. No leaks. Transmission shifts fine. Fluid is dark and gritty. I could be wrong but I DO believe in life-time fluid. Aisin produced tens of millions of automatic transmissions. So did ZF. If there is any evidence that changing fluid extends the life of a transmission, Toyota would list it as a maintenance requirement. My guess is that, changing fluid would do little to improve transmission's lifespan. It only makes you feel good
Click to expand...
Doesn't Toyota list ATF change as maintenance requirement not that it is a lifetime fluid? I think my dealer said 100,000 km or 6 years. Are you using the stock Toyota WS transmission fluid?

I asked two dealers, two independent mechanics, and a tranny shop whether or not I should change the oil and most erred on the side of don't change it you might cause further problems to change it if it makes you feel better. No one said to definitely change it though likely because none of them wanted the liability of a potential transmission problem post-oil change.

The reason I had wondered about changing it is I've got the deceleration whine listed in the TSB from a decade ago, but everything else seem ok. The whine though is definitely worse with warmer ambient temperatures and loudest when the air temperature is > 30 C (> 85 F). I had thought that possibly just completing a couple drain and fills as suggested above might improve the viscosity performance of the lubricant at high temps and reduce the whine?

The Toyota WS ATF fluid is a mineral oil and I'm sure with time the basestock and additives can wear leading to viscosity changes. I don't know though which way the viscosity trends as the oil wears but had thought that it would become less viscous at high temps over time thereby explaining the large increase in whine noise.

I guess what I should do is pull a sample of the used oil and send it to the lab for analysis. I could then compare the kinematic viscosity at 100 C of the used oil to the new oil. It says the new oil has a viscosity at 100 C of 5.45 cSt here on page 7.

Or I could just go ahead and do a couple drain and fills and hope for the best afterwards. Tough call.
 
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