[tpg]

two notes on ATF flush. First, I tried regular ATF dexron fluid for a few months to see what happened. As the fluid is thicker, performance really dropped. I did this at 100K miles, and the fluid was brown and ugly.

Second, I went to Valvoline Maxlife ATF based on my research, and performance came back up. HOWEVER, with the standard drain and fill method, you are changing 3 qts of an 11 qt. system. So the fluid is still crap ... LESS crap, but still crap.

I did a mathematical calculation (Excel) and showed that changing it multiple times makes the contamination concentration be less and less. Specifically, if you assume that at it's max life, the percentage of contamination is 100%, changing only 3 qts means that it's then 72.7% contaminated ... so you change 3 qts again and it's 52.9% contaminated .. another 3 qts and it's 38.5% ... then 28.0% ... then 20.3% ... then 14.8%. So I decided to change those 3 qts every week for 6 weeks to get the contamination down to 15% ... then every time I change the oil, I drain and fill 3 qts. and the fluid is always clean. That was 50K miles ago and it stays clean.

Use MaxLife or don't ... don't care ... what I want the message to be is to realize that changing your ATF is doing almost NOTHING because you're only changing 3 of the 11 qts in the system ... all your doing is REDUCING the contamination ... so you need to reduce it multiple times to get it clean (a relative statement ;-). Or, of course, do a dealer authorized flush where they are supposed to get all the fluid from the torque converter and such.

 

[MrPulldown]

two notes on ATF flush. First, I tried regular ATF dexron fluid for a few months to see what happened. As the fluid is thicker, performance really dropped. I did this at 100K miles, and the fluid was brown and ugly.

Second, I went to Valvoline Maxlife ATF based on my research, and performance came back up. HOWEVER, with the standard drain and fill method, you are changing 3 qts of an 11 qt. system. So the fluid is still crap ... LESS crap, but still crap.

I did a mathematical calculation (Excel) and showed that changing it multiple times makes the contamination concentration be less and less. Specifically, if you assume that at it's max life, the percentage of contamination is 100%, changing only 3 qts means that it's then 72.7% contaminated ... so you change 3 qts again and it's 52.9% contaminated .. another 3 qts and it's 38.5% ... then 28.0% ... then 20.3% ... then 14.8%. So I decided to change those 3 qts every week for 6 weeks to get the contamination down to 15% ... then every time I change the oil, I drain and fill 3 qts. and the fluid is always clean. That was 50K miles ago and it stays clean.

Use MaxLife or don't ... don't care ... what I want the message to be is to realize that changing your ATF is doing almost NOTHING because you're only changing 3 of the 11 qts in the system ... all your doing is REDUCING the contamination ... so you need to reduce it multiple times to get it clean (a relative statement ;-). Or, of course, do a dealer authorized flush where they are supposed to get all the fluid from the torque converter and such.

That is why you pull the fluid return line to get the rest of the fluid out. Waste less fluid if you want a 100% fluid change.

https://r56hs.com/2016/02/22/2011-rav4-v6-awd-automatic-transmission-flush/

 

[tpg]

No doubt that pulling that line and running the engine to get it all wastes less ... but my way means you don't have to lift the car, remove the trany bolts and cover, maybe change the filter, re-attach the return line, re-torque the bolts, worry about a leak, etc. Again, don't care about the fluid, or for that matter, how you do it ... the bottom line is for people to realize that just dropping 3 qts is NOT changing your ATF ... there's still 8 qts inside there so it's still plenty dirty.

 

[vanib]

Isn't the whole system made up of 8 or 9 quarts OR is that for the i4 only?

 

[tpg]

most Gen 3's have 11 qts (or so I've been told ... and verified in mine)

 

[vasillalov]

So this is probably a stupid question but what does WS stand for?

Also, Amsoil states that the transmission fluid is 6.4 quarts. What is the official capacity for the V6 4WD models?

Finally, would you recommend taking the vehicle to the dealership for diff, transfer case and transmission fluid change compared to doing it yourself or taking it to an independent shop?

Just so we are on the same page: I've been wrenching, tuning and racing cars for over 15 years now so I am quite handy. I have a full garage with pretty much everything except a car lift. However, this is my first automatic and my first 4WD system I am dealing with.

 

[tpg]

WS stands for World Standard. Based on my research, I use Valvoline MaxLife ... but that's not saying Amsoil won't work.

I have no idea what capacity yours is ... suggest you use a web site like https://carmanuals2.com and look it up.

assuming you don't have any pumping tools to get the fluid out from above, you need to drop the plastic cover from the bottom of the engine to expose the plug ... I think any handyman can do it.

 

[vasillalov]

Thank you for clarify on the WS acronym. Makes perfect sense now.

Concerning the pumping tools.... Well, looking at the DIY instruction guides out there, everyone seems to be doing the drain, run engine, refill method multiple times. That seems quite inaccurate and also suggests that the transmission pan is not the lowest point of the system or it is not the only low point in the system where fluid collects. So pumping tools won't be of much help unless you can reach every low collection point in the system.

Thank you for the link! The manual states 9.3 quarts for the transmission fluid and 0.5 quarts for the transfer case.

Now I need to hunt down filters and fluids.

 

[MrPulldown]

Thank you for clarify on the WS acronym. Makes perfect sense now.

Concerning the pumping tools.... Well, looking at the DIY instruction guides out there, everyone seems to be doing the drain, run engine, refill method multiple times. That seems quite inaccurate and also suggests that the transmission pan is not the lowest point of the system or it is not the only low point in the system where fluid collects. So pumping tools won't be of much help unless you can reach every low collection point in the system.

Thank you for the link! The manual states 9.3 quarts for the transmission fluid and 0.5 quarts for the transfer case.

Now I need to hunt down filters and fluids.

I have read upwards of 16 quarts. You are forgetting the torque converter acting like a gigantic reservoir.

All my cars since I was 16 have all been manuals , so I too once felt lost when it came to ATs. But having done a few (father's, wife's), I am more comfortable. Most require you to drop the entire pan. Ours at least has a nice drain plug. This will be the first time for me doing the RAV. Surprised someone with so much garage time would recommend others do this job at the DEALER.

I have some MAx life on hand. But I am going with Amsoil OE FE.

 

[vasillalov]

I am confused. I am not recommending that others go to a dealer. I am asking if I should take my car to a dealer to get this done?

Honestly, the cost of the parts is a "chump change" compared to my BMW. I am at 60K miles as a second owner, and I plan on towing my BMW. So I am thinking it is a good thing to change the transmission fluid and transfer case fluid pre-preemptively.

 

[MrPulldown]

I am confused. I am not recommending that others go to a dealer. I am asking if I should take my car to a dealer to get this done?

Honestly, the cost of the parts is a "chump change" compared to my BMW. I am at 60K miles as a second owner, and I plan on towing my BMW. So I am thinking it is a good thing to change the transmission fluid and transfer case fluid pre-preemptively.

Sorry misread your first post.

DYI.

SHould be fun!!

 

[vasillalov]

Yeah, I figured I can tackle this on my own.

Can anyone provide the part number for the Toyota WS fluid? I can't find it online anywhere.

 

[vasillalov]

Ignore my last. I found it in Amazon.com. Purchasing Toyota parts and maintenance items is a very different experience than it is for BMW.

 

[JuneBug]

You can buy Aisin WS fluid at this site:

Aisin / Toyota WS World Standard Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF-0WS)

Aisin is the Toyota subsidiary that makes the transmissions and many other parts in the RAV4.

 

[missingtime]

Cooler weather was making my transmission shudder worse so I changed out 4 quarts and added Valvoline Maxlife-big mistake, it's very thick and shudder is worse. I had meant to add Castrol import but spaced it, that's much thinner.

 

[Suprarush07]

Honestly,

I would just continue to do a drain and fill as per Toyota recommendations. The WS fluid has detergents in the fluid that will help clean whats still remaining inside the torque convertor etc. Do this every 60,000 miles or 96,000km. I can count all on 1 hand how many tranny flushes we've done at my Toyota Dealer. The filter does not require changing either.

As for your BMW, it is lifetime, same rules apply. Don't touch the transmission fluid, its a sealed unit for a reason. The fluid is super expensive but so is the transmission. The only time you add fluid is if there is a leak repair i.e mechatronic sealing sleeve etc.

These are just my opinions but its from working 15 years with Toyota and 7 years with BMW. Hope it helps!

 

[DL175]

Cooler weather was making my transmission shudder worse so I changed out 4 quarts and added Valvoline Maxlife-big mistake, it's very thick and shudder is worse. I had meant to add Castrol import but spaced it, that's much thinner.

You must have worn parts if a drain and fill can't improve the shudder. I am running MaxLife and I have no problems.

 

[MrPulldown]

Cooler weather was making my transmission shudder worse so I changed out 4 quarts and added Valvoline Maxlife-big mistake, it's very thick and shudder is worse. I had meant to add Castrol import but spaced it, that's much thinner.

What are the viscosities for both. The Toyota #s are a little more secretive. This is what I have found for Toyota WS:
cst at 40 is 25
cst at 100 is 7.2

Max life is:
cst at 40 is 28.8
cst at 100 is 5.9
http://www.luisa.com.gt/sites/default/files/maxlife_atf.pdf

Wonder what it is like with even colder temps. Basically it is thicker (than WS) when cold and thinner when hot.

With Amsoil OE FE
cst at 40 is 28.3
cst at 100 is 5.8
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3190.pdf

I found that the cold AT thunk was greatly reduced when I did a drain and fill at 60K with Amsoil (which basic specs are very close to Maxlife). I am approaching 100K and am going to be doing several drain and fills soon. Thinking of doing one with maxlife soon as I have a jug lying around.

 

[DL175]

What are the viscosities for both. The Toyota #s are a little more secretive. This is what I have found for Toyota WS:
cst at 40 is 25
cst at 100 is 7.2

Max life is:
cst at 40 is 28.8
cst at 100 is 5.9
http://www.luisa.com.gt/sites/default/files/maxlife_atf.pdf

Wonder what it is like with even colder temps. Basically it is thicker (than WS) when cold and thinner when hot.

With Amsoil OE FE
cst at 40 is 28.3
cst at 100 is 5.8
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3190.pdf

I found that the cold AT thunk was greatly reduced when I did a drain and fill at 60K with Amsoil (which basic specs are very close to Maxlife). I am approaching 100K and am going to be doing several drain and fills soon. Thinking of doing one with maxlife soon as I have a jug lying around.

There are other things to consider and that is transmission oil maximum temperatures ratings. Synthetic can handle hotter temperatures and will not over heat as much. This will make a difference in hotter climates and for severe driving like towing. Heavy stop/go traffic and mountain driving can over heat the transmission oil also. Oil life should be longer with synthetic with its better temperature ratings. I checked the MSDS and Redline has the highest temperature rating followed by Amsoil.

 

[missingtime]

You must have worn parts if a drain and fill can't improve the shudder. I am running MaxLife and I have no problems.

I didn't have shudder at all until I started monkeying with different fluids. Max life is wayyy thicker, it barely goes down the pipe. I'm gonna fill the entire thing with Castrol Import and call it a day.