i have a 2019 XLE and just noticed it uses 0W16 oil. I went to 3 auto parts stores and they never heard of it. Is this something new or can 0W20 be used?
0W16 oil?
njscan
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and you believe in the lifetime fluid fairy too? Did you really wait until 10K miles for your first oil change?
I do my own changes at less than $50 and half an hour of time. I overservice the fluids and have always got 200K+ miles. I've been doing this for 40 years and I'm not about to change. It's the damn New England rust that ends up killing my cars but they still have good engines and transmissions.
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If the fluid fairy wrote the OM and Maintenance Guide then I guess I am a believer.
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0-16, 5-20, 5-30, all works in these Rav gas engines. TX summer, use 5-30, 20F below in N Dakota, use 0-16 or 0-20.
They had spec'd 0-16 even before 0-16 was certified in the US, hence why they allowed 0-20.
The oil is as good as UOA says it's good. Blackstone tests, is one way to know. Full synths can go 7kmi(min) in a Rav4. Change oil when needed, etc.
They had spec'd 0-16 even before 0-16 was certified in the US, hence why they allowed 0-20.
The oil is as good as UOA says it's good. Blackstone tests, is one way to know. Full synths can go 7kmi(min) in a Rav4. Change oil when needed, etc.
I agree warmer climate areas need higher viscosity for better protection. Toyota statement switch back in pinch is for fuel economy not engine protection and they also recommend higher viscosity under more extreme conditions in other words better protection. If you're an average driver in moderate climates 16 is fine for uber drivers in Florida summer use higher.
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I don't understand why water cooling engine needs this? Cooling systems should keep engine at specific temperature regardless of ambient temperature.
Am I wrong?
Within limits that is true. To me the biggest variable is the temp during cold starts. That is when the engine is most vulnerable to wear. Pushing an engine past its normal operating temp when the ambient temperature is high can certainly be done but it's also fairly easy to avoid, IMO.
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Using regulated water flow, the cooling system can remove X amount of btu to keep water temp stable. This does not mean the internals stay at the same temp. The internal temps can still rise, the water pulls heat out, the radiator expels the heat.
In general, the heavier oils will protect better. The question becomes, is it really needed? But instead of doing a deep dive on that you can simply ask the question the other way, what does it hurt to use the heavier oil in summer? The answer is, it's doesn't, thus ok to use. There may be a slight (very slight, very small fraction of 1) mpg diff across a full tank of gas.
In other basic terms, doesn't really matter I guess. For the Rav4, I use the 5-30 all the time. For my Lexus v8, pretty much now just 10-30 year round. Full synths are good oils, and from what I have seen, oil changes near 7kmi allow the engine to have a long clean life, my Lexus is nearing 300kmi.
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And what are the temperature parameters to be considered "warmer year round climates"?
My OM doesn't mention anything about that. Maybe the RAV4 owners where you live are provided with a different OM?
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I live in perhaps the hottest metropolitan area in the United States (Las Vegas), and I have always used the lightest oils per the Toyota manual, first with a 2007 Yaris 0w-20, through 4 Prius (0w-20, 0w-16), and up to our new 2021 Rav4 Hybrid AWD Limited, doing 10,000-mile oil changes. And in that history, our cars never burned oil, never had a problem, so I am convinced that using 0w-16 in 118F+ hot week after week is more than fine.
What people forget is that fact that the cooling systems on our 2.5L motors are high-performance systems, so it does not matter if the ambient temperature is freezing, 70F, 80F, 90F, or 120F...0W-16 will provide the required engine protection so that you can get 300,000+ from your gas motor. So who cars what the ambient temperature is if our cooling system does a spectacular job?
What matters is the temperature INSIDE the engine, not the ambient. Embrace science!
What people forget is that fact that the cooling systems on our 2.5L motors are high-performance systems, so it does not matter if the ambient temperature is freezing, 70F, 80F, 90F, or 120F...0W-16 will provide the required engine protection so that you can get 300,000+ from your gas motor. So who cars what the ambient temperature is if our cooling system does a spectacular job?
What matters is the temperature INSIDE the engine, not the ambient. Embrace science!
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The cooling system moderates engine temps, it does not pin it to one temp.
On a hot summer Las Vegas day, do 10mi of city driving and then take an oil temp and/or water temp. Then do the same on a chilly winter Las Vegas day.
The heavier oils have better properties for protecting against metal-metal contact.
Ambient temps do kinda matter, you can only cool the water down to ambient, no less. So when it's 110F in Las Vegas the water can only be as cold as 110F. In say chilly Fargo in summer, the water can go lower to 75F, or in some other mountain areas in summer, could be as low as 60F. When delta between ambient and operating temp is small, the cooling system needs more fan and/or more flow to try and remove Btu from the water to keep internals within a operating range.
Who has taken a 4.5gen 2.5L motor to 300kmi yet using only 0-16, in hot Las Vegas ?
On a hot summer Las Vegas day, do 10mi of city driving and then take an oil temp and/or water temp. Then do the same on a chilly winter Las Vegas day.
The heavier oils have better properties for protecting against metal-metal contact.
Ambient temps do kinda matter, you can only cool the water down to ambient, no less. So when it's 110F in Las Vegas the water can only be as cold as 110F. In say chilly Fargo in summer, the water can go lower to 75F, or in some other mountain areas in summer, could be as low as 60F. When delta between ambient and operating temp is small, the cooling system needs more fan and/or more flow to try and remove Btu from the water to keep internals within a operating range.
Who has taken a 4.5gen 2.5L motor to 300kmi yet using only 0-16, in hot Las Vegas ?
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The thermostat regulates, so it is less important if I am driving in 5F or 115F ambient temperatures.
Not many have 4.5 gens running the 2.5L motor using 0w-16 in Vegas? Thousands and thousands are with their Camry's, Rav4's, Venza's, other Toyota models too, but you don't hear of a pandemic of damaged, oil-burning engines here...that reputation does not exist here. All the toyota dealerships here (4 of them) recommend 0w-16 year round.
I'll go with the Toyota manual, their engineers, and science.
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0-16 was not (NOT) developed for protecting the engine any better than a 5-30. 0-16 was developed to increase MPG's, that's it. And from the science alone, the 5-30 will protect better than a 0-16.
In terms of developing better motor oils and more efficient ICE's, we are basically at the limit. The heavy dev spending in recent years was to get better MPG's by creating a very low viscosity motor oil. Toyota saw a way using 0-16. Again, the 0-16 does not protect better than the 5-30.
A -16 at 210F has a rather thin film of protection. the -30 has a bit more. Both still fit into the tight tolerances of the 2.5L engine.
Dealers for the most part have not a clue why they recommend something, other than "it's what the manufacturer has said".
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So Toyota reduced the oil change interval to 5,000 miles when using anything but 0-16 because they are only concerned that your fuel economy might drop by one MPG. Sure that makes sense.
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You are mistaken on several claims you make.
The reason 0w-16 is spec'd for our engines is because our engine has much smaller tolerances than others. A thicker oil in our engines will (a) not squeeze in between parts as well as a thinner oil, which will cause less protection to moving parts, and (b) thicker than required takes more energy to move the engine parts, which will cause higher full use.
Again, ow-16 protects better than thicker oils. You make the error of thinking thicker offers better protect, and if that were the case, why not just put 60 weight in your crank case and be done with it?
We do agree on one thing: dealers do know much about their own cars. However, Toyota Engineers, and it is those engineers that know better than them, you, and I.
There are just too many Toyota taxis the world over, logging millions of miles on 0w-16 & 20 whose engines go 100's of thousands of miles with no oil burning, nor loss of performance to leave this question to those who go on their feelings, and emotions.
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Your sarcasm was noted, and I agree! LOL
It's funny how so many think that thicker oil means more protection...they do not consider the finer tolerances of the moving engine parts. They conclude on their feelings, uninformed opinions, instead of deferring to scientists, engineers, UOA's (used oil analysis), and empirical statistics which prove otherwise.
It's why there are vaccinated and unvaccinated.
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Why would Toyota care what your mpg is while you are running the heavier oil that you continue to baselessly promote? Toyota only needs to meet the EPA mpg requirements. Clearly there is more to it than just fuel efficiency.
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If you actually read the engineering articles from Japan regarding the push towards 0w-16 - and now 0w-8 in fact, 100% of them state they are trying to make engines that can run on low viscosity oils to save fuel - not that they made a high tolerance engine that requires lower viscosity oils. In fact outside of the USA for the same car, same engine - Toyota publishes a more traditional viscosity chart - the one below is from 2019 Rav4 in UK.
Not true anymore. The EPA mileage requirements are across your "fleet" - taking into account volume sold. If you sell more efficient rav 4's - you can then sell more inefficient 4 Runners at higher margin. So its not quite as simple as hitting some "EPA Spec". Every 1/10th of a mile counts, and if you end up with extra carbon credits you can sell them to others that need them - so there is a profit incentive to squeeze every MPG out of each car you can - which I do think ends up being a good thing.
Having said that I do run 0w-16 without concern. I have faith in Toyota engineering that the engine can work well on that oil. However oil looses viscosity over time - so the longer you run it the less viscosity it has. Mine gets changed every 5K miles by choice. If I were trying to run the full 10K I would be tempted to go 0w-20 - but again thats just my choice, not something I think is necessary. I am trying to make mine go 300K miles. THe vast majority of owners won't keep there cars long enough to get there anyway.
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If YOU would read the engineering documents coming out of Toyota Japan, and many other makes, you will find that in the past 15+ years, they ALL have trended toward designing engines with (a) finer tolerances, and (b) the need of those engines to use thinner oils, for BEST protection.
This is why ALL makes back-spec thinner oils for SOME of their legacy motors, but not all.
This is why putting 0w-16 in a 1960's vintage engine or any of those from the 1970s would greatly shorten their life because they were designed with WIDER tolerances, which demand thicker oils.
It's about thinner tolerances, and your refusal to face facts. You also refuse to look at Used Oil Analysis, thousands of them that prove thinner oils do in fact protect today's latest engines.
Thin oils will screw up engines that have wider tolerances like those most engines pre 2000's. And thinner oils like 0w-16 will INCREASE the life of the latest engines for 2021.
I would suggest you lean not unto your own understanding, and instead go with science, the experts at Toyota engineering, and facts: UOA's. You change your oil at 5,000 miles out of zero evidence to do so. What you do not understand is that oil loses its additive package protection LONG BEFORE it's viscosity is thinned to the point of being too thin.
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